Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please.
11-28-2007, 10:58 AM
#26
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Re: (mac_24_seven)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mac_24_seven »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, something about the A/F which I didnt' think abotu untill last night:
The owner of the dyno ( a tuner himself, only on domestics) said he heard an exhaust leak, which messes up the A/F readout, which he's right, I DO have a small leak. Thus why the A/F looks weird,... WHich really, thats throws off everything.</TD></TR></TABLE>
regardless of the leak ur motor is still make a tonne more power in the mid, in a richer state of tune
The owner of the dyno ( a tuner himself, only on domestics) said he heard an exhaust leak, which messes up the A/F readout, which he's right, I DO have a small leak. Thus why the A/F looks weird,... WHich really, thats throws off everything.</TD></TR></TABLE>
regardless of the leak ur motor is still make a tonne more power in the mid, in a richer state of tune
11-28-2007, 11:43 AM
#27
Re: (Rollo Lawson)
A few items I would like to suggest.
Just use NGK Platinum spark plugs for a GSR. No need for anything fancy.
Get a High Flow Cat from SMSP with an extra bung pre-cat for your tuner, easier to install o2 sensor.
If you want more midrange put your GSR intake back on, you will be surprised. You don't have enough compression to have a strong midrange with a single runner intake.
As for the A/F I don't know why it is but is seems like Chome always has a bit of a bumpy reading.
Yes, you should have more power, with I/H/E and ITR pistons GSR made 170/128.
Dynos read different, yes. About 5%??? 10hp???
Modified by OH_1fstgsr at 1:50 PM 11/28/2007
Just use NGK Platinum spark plugs for a GSR. No need for anything fancy.
Get a High Flow Cat from SMSP with an extra bung pre-cat for your tuner, easier to install o2 sensor.
If you want more midrange put your GSR intake back on, you will be surprised. You don't have enough compression to have a strong midrange with a single runner intake.
As for the A/F I don't know why it is but is seems like Chome always has a bit of a bumpy reading.
Yes, you should have more power, with I/H/E and ITR pistons GSR made 170/128.
Dynos read different, yes. About 5%??? 10hp???
Modified by OH_1fstgsr at 1:50 PM 11/28/2007
11-28-2007, 11:56 AM
#28
Re: (OH_1fstgsr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OH_1fstgsr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you want more midrange put your GSR intake back on, you will be suppressed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That thought has crossed my mind...
If you want more midrange put your GSR intake back on, you will be suppressed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That thought has crossed my mind...
11-28-2007, 11:59 AM
#29
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Re: (Rollo Lawson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rollo Lawson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
regardless of the leak ur motor is still make a tonne more power in the mid, in a richer state of tune </TD></TR></TABLE>
i like when people tell me to lean it out a bit more... sometimes it doesn't make power... sometimes it gets worse.
i love it when people that dont know **** tell me how to do my job, its awesome
regardless of the leak ur motor is still make a tonne more power in the mid, in a richer state of tune </TD></TR></TABLE>
i like when people tell me to lean it out a bit more... sometimes it doesn't make power... sometimes it gets worse.
i love it when people that dont know **** tell me how to do my job, its awesome
11-28-2007, 12:15 PM
#30
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Re: (gsrob)
Drop the cat/stock exhaust.
Same thing happened to a buddy of mine, he had really low numbers and didnt know why, until he found out his resonator/cat's inside went to ****, and was clogging the exhaust fumes. He dropped it and made a **** ton more power, basically as much as he was supposed to be making.
In comparison, a buddy of mine had higher numbers with a stock strong GSR motor, and skunk2 ITR manifold, JDM ITR header/kakimoto exhaust with Hondata base map= 166whp and 12xtq
Same thing happened to a buddy of mine, he had really low numbers and didnt know why, until he found out his resonator/cat's inside went to ****, and was clogging the exhaust fumes. He dropped it and made a **** ton more power, basically as much as he was supposed to be making.
In comparison, a buddy of mine had higher numbers with a stock strong GSR motor, and skunk2 ITR manifold, JDM ITR header/kakimoto exhaust with Hondata base map= 166whp and 12xtq
11-28-2007, 12:29 PM
#31
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mac_24_seven »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My tuner went from 28 degrees timing to 17 degrees timing and there was literally, 1/2 hp change. Why in the hell would that much timing difference change nothing?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because youre running <CROME>. Its been fairly well documented that <CROME> has some bugs in the high cam timing dept. No wonder your tuner was scratching his head. The software is buggy.
Because youre running <CROME>. Its been fairly well documented that <CROME> has some bugs in the high cam timing dept. No wonder your tuner was scratching his head. The software is buggy.
11-28-2007, 12:34 PM
#32
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Because youre running <CROME>. Its been fairly well documented that <CROME> has some bugs in the high cam timing dept. No wonder your tuner was scratching his head. The software is buggy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Might want to brush up on the subject over at pgmfi.org. Its been confirmed the supposed "timing issues" aren't really an issue at all. There is a large subject over there about it right now. Its not an "issue" as most people have made it.
Because youre running <CROME>. Its been fairly well documented that <CROME> has some bugs in the high cam timing dept. No wonder your tuner was scratching his head. The software is buggy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Might want to brush up on the subject over at pgmfi.org. Its been confirmed the supposed "timing issues" aren't really an issue at all. There is a large subject over there about it right now. Its not an "issue" as most people have made it.
11-28-2007, 12:40 PM
#33
Honda-Tech Member
I dont need to brush up on it. I have witnessed it first-hand. This gentlemans story is just another addition. There are other explanations for his "missing" power, but the drastic timing change with no measureable effect on power throws up a red flag to me.
11-28-2007, 12:43 PM
#34
moderator emeritus
Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but the drastic timing change with no measureable effect on power throws up a red flag to me. </TD></TR></TABLE>
witnessed this as well. NA b17, there was a miss that he was datalogging. He took out atleast 10-15* of timing and nothing changed, power wise.
witnessed this as well. NA b17, there was a miss that he was datalogging. He took out atleast 10-15* of timing and nothing changed, power wise.
11-28-2007, 02:21 PM
#36
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont need to brush up on it. I have witnessed it first-hand. This gentlemans story is just another addition. There are other explanations for his "missing" power, but the drastic timing change with no measureable effect on power throws up a red flag to me. </TD></TR></TABLE>
This is whats amusing to me. Several people on pgmfi.org have personally tested it WITH A DYNO and found that timing changes DID make a difference as they should. If you read the subject over there however there is a limitation to this change. I'm not saying it works 100% perfectly, but if you read about the issue they found you might better understand that its not what the majority of people, including yourself, think the problem is.
This is whats amusing to me. Several people on pgmfi.org have personally tested it WITH A DYNO and found that timing changes DID make a difference as they should. If you read the subject over there however there is a limitation to this change. I'm not saying it works 100% perfectly, but if you read about the issue they found you might better understand that its not what the majority of people, including yourself, think the problem is.
11-28-2007, 02:30 PM
#37
Honda-Tech Member
Well whats amusing to me is that youre glossing over a large number of people who are experiencing the exact opposite scenario. Timing changes make ZERO difference. This gentlemans setup was tested WITH A DYNO and timing adjustments as much as 9 degrees made NO DIFFERENCE. Maybe its not an issue with everyones setup, but it is with more than a few.
11-28-2007, 02:41 PM
#38
moderator emeritus
Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well whats amusing to me is that youre glossing over a large number of people who are experiencing the exact opposite scenario. Timing changes make ZERO difference. This gentlemans setup was tested WITH A DYNO and timing adjustments as much as 9 degrees made NO DIFFERENCE. Maybe its not an issue with everyones setup, but it is with more than a few. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i, personally, have never had a problem with it. But my friend (mmuller) did. so obviously because some people dont have problems and others do, then the others are lying?
look, i like crome, but it has its flaws. which is the reason i run neptune now.
i, personally, have never had a problem with it. But my friend (mmuller) did. so obviously because some people dont have problems and others do, then the others are lying?
look, i like crome, but it has its flaws. which is the reason i run neptune now.
11-28-2007, 02:44 PM
#39
Honda-Tech Member
I dont think that anyone is lying here. I think some people have an issue with it, and some dont. I think that some people get defensive when their favorite piece of freeware/shareware has issues, and assume that the parties responsible either just dont know how to use the product/are mistaken.
11-28-2007, 03:00 PM
#40
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont think that anyone is lying here. I think some people have an issue with it, and some dont. I think that some people get defensive when their favorite piece of freeware/shareware has issues, and assume that the parties responsible either just dont know how to use the product/are mistaken.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It works fine for me and as far as I can see, the timing changes DO make a difference. I don't use the freeware version, I purchased Crome a long time ago.
If you want the fix to the whole timing "problem" its posted on pgmfi.org. There is even a script that has been made to resolve the "issues" people are having.
It works fine for me and as far as I can see, the timing changes DO make a difference. I don't use the freeware version, I purchased Crome a long time ago.
If you want the fix to the whole timing "problem" its posted on pgmfi.org. There is even a script that has been made to resolve the "issues" people are having.
11-28-2007, 03:03 PM
#41
Re: (Combustion Contraption)
Maybe Crome some a issues but that is not a strong factor in this case. This guy is running a stock exhaust and the tune is not good.
I can't see why this thread is still going. He lost power. If your motor can't breathe then messing with timing is not going to make a difference.
I can't see why this thread is still going. He lost power. If your motor can't breathe then messing with timing is not going to make a difference.
11-28-2007, 03:07 PM
#42
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Re: (OH_1fstgsr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OH_1fstgsr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes, you should have more power, with I/H/E and ITR pistons GSR made 170/128.
Dynos read different, yes. About 5%??? 10hp???
Modified by OH_1fstgsr at 1:50 PM 11/28/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
this guy has a stock block, not itr pistons. the power output is fine for a choked motor.
Yes, you should have more power, with I/H/E and ITR pistons GSR made 170/128.
Dynos read different, yes. About 5%??? 10hp???
Modified by OH_1fstgsr at 1:50 PM 11/28/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
this guy has a stock block, not itr pistons. the power output is fine for a choked motor.
11-28-2007, 03:11 PM
#43
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Hybrid96EK)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you want the fix to the whole timing "problem" its posted on pgmfi.org. There is even a script that has been made to resolve the "issues" people are having.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont see the need for the " " marks. If it wasnt a "problem" why was there a script created? Im not trying to pick on you, Hybrid96EK, you are one of the more intelligent users on this forum, im just trying to figure out the reason you are so unwilling to admit that its an issue. Just because it doesnt happen with your copy doesnt mean its not really happening.
But i agree with everyone else re: the power issue. This is a low(relatively speaking) compression engine that simply cant exhale.
I dont see the need for the " " marks. If it wasnt a "problem" why was there a script created? Im not trying to pick on you, Hybrid96EK, you are one of the more intelligent users on this forum, im just trying to figure out the reason you are so unwilling to admit that its an issue. Just because it doesnt happen with your copy doesnt mean its not really happening.
But i agree with everyone else re: the power issue. This is a low(relatively speaking) compression engine that simply cant exhale.
11-28-2007, 03:14 PM
#44
Mad Scientist
Re: (Combustion Contraption)
yeah, i have had and have issues with crome... i dont expect it to be perfect... you get what you pay for..
i still love for the movement though...
im not really sure why the car was not responding to timing changes. car or crome... not sure yet
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That A/F is not what I would consider good. If you paid for that tune, I would expect a flat ~13 at WOT all the way across.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lower rev range reads lean because and exhaust leak, vtec af dip is also gone..
so if you consider a .3 af swing bad you have not had much experience.
fuel is not that important... timing was my main concern; spent too much time trying to figure out timing issues, run out of time to get the AF exact.. can do that on the street.
everyone is too quick to blame the tuner..
ignorance
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ok let me get this straight
you had LESS midrange after tuning? or am i reading this wrong.
didn't the "tuner" saw that the engine didn't respond well from 3300 to 6000 rpms with whatever fuel/ign numbers was running there after he tuned it?
other thing the a/f graph isnt as smooth as you would like it to be... </TD></TR></TABLE>
wow i expected more from your comments... less midrange is a given because of manifold change... gsr before p73 after....secondaries..?
and yes i saw the engine not responding to changes... your point of attack is?
once again, shitty AF curve on the DYNO'S WIDEBAND is off a lot because of exhaust leaks..
wow people are quick to make ignorant comments before knowing the whole story
mechanical timing was synch'ed with the maps.
no i was not using crome's timing fix script. that eliminates crome adding unexpected timing, multipliers that were unknown before cause that.
Modified by mmuller at 11:08 PM 11/28/2007
i still love for the movement though...
im not really sure why the car was not responding to timing changes. car or crome... not sure yet
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That A/F is not what I would consider good. If you paid for that tune, I would expect a flat ~13 at WOT all the way across.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lower rev range reads lean because and exhaust leak, vtec af dip is also gone..
so if you consider a .3 af swing bad you have not had much experience.
fuel is not that important... timing was my main concern; spent too much time trying to figure out timing issues, run out of time to get the AF exact.. can do that on the street.
everyone is too quick to blame the tuner..
ignorance
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ok let me get this straight
you had LESS midrange after tuning? or am i reading this wrong.
didn't the "tuner" saw that the engine didn't respond well from 3300 to 6000 rpms with whatever fuel/ign numbers was running there after he tuned it?
other thing the a/f graph isnt as smooth as you would like it to be... </TD></TR></TABLE>
wow i expected more from your comments... less midrange is a given because of manifold change... gsr before p73 after....secondaries..?
and yes i saw the engine not responding to changes... your point of attack is?
once again, shitty AF curve on the DYNO'S WIDEBAND is off a lot because of exhaust leaks..
wow people are quick to make ignorant comments before knowing the whole story
mechanical timing was synch'ed with the maps.
no i was not using crome's timing fix script. that eliminates crome adding unexpected timing, multipliers that were unknown before cause that.
Modified by mmuller at 11:08 PM 11/28/2007
11-28-2007, 03:34 PM
#45
Mad Scientist
Re: (98vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
witnessed this as well. NA b17, there was a miss that he was datalogging. He took out atleast 10-15* of timing and nothing changed, power wise.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yep i remember that blake, that was with the itb plugin , which was buggy
on the dyno did change power though... not consistently but it did..lol
witnessed this as well. NA b17, there was a miss that he was datalogging. He took out atleast 10-15* of timing and nothing changed, power wise.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yep i remember that blake, that was with the itb plugin , which was buggy
on the dyno did change power though... not consistently but it did..lol
11-28-2007, 03:42 PM
#46
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I dont see the need for the " " marks. If it wasnt a "problem" why was there a script created? Im not trying to pick on you, Hybrid96EK, you are one of the more intelligent users on this forum, im just trying to figure out the reason you are so unwilling to admit that its an issue. Just because it doesnt happen with your copy doesnt mean its not really happening.
But i agree with everyone else re: the power issue. This is a low(relatively speaking) compression engine that simply cant exhale.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not accusing you of picking on me. Just saying I have seen quite a few cases that support its not really a problem. I also will admit I have seen a fair amoutn of cases that say it IS a problem as well. I was mainly posting so that people didn't assume Crome was *** and avoid it like the plague.
I dont see the need for the " " marks. If it wasnt a "problem" why was there a script created? Im not trying to pick on you, Hybrid96EK, you are one of the more intelligent users on this forum, im just trying to figure out the reason you are so unwilling to admit that its an issue. Just because it doesnt happen with your copy doesnt mean its not really happening.
But i agree with everyone else re: the power issue. This is a low(relatively speaking) compression engine that simply cant exhale.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm not accusing you of picking on me. Just saying I have seen quite a few cases that support its not really a problem. I also will admit I have seen a fair amoutn of cases that say it IS a problem as well. I was mainly posting so that people didn't assume Crome was *** and avoid it like the plague.
11-28-2007, 05:02 PM
#47
Re: (mmuller)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so if you consider a .3 af swing bad you have not had much experience.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
BS, the 1st car I tuned had a flat AF.
Second, if it wasn't obvious that was a s**t tune then you seem to be the rookie.
Modified by mar778c at 9:12 PM 11/28/2007
so if you consider a .3 af swing bad you have not had much experience.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
BS, the 1st car I tuned had a flat AF.
Second, if it wasn't obvious that was a s**t tune then you seem to be the rookie.
Modified by mar778c at 9:12 PM 11/28/2007
11-28-2007, 05:06 PM
#48
Re: (mar778c)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lower rev range reads lean because and exhaust leak, </TD></TR></TABLE>
Again why would you even mess with it if you knew the reading wasn't close to accurate. Thank God, I learned how to do my thing and not have to depend on others.
Maybe all that time you spent tuning, the exhaust gases got to you.
Again why would you even mess with it if you knew the reading wasn't close to accurate. Thank God, I learned how to do my thing and not have to depend on others.
Maybe all that time you spent tuning, the exhaust gases got to you.
11-28-2007, 05:41 PM
#49
Mad Scientist
Re: (mar778c)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BS, the 1st car I tuned had a flat AF.
Second, if it wasn't obvious that was a s**t tune then you seem to be the rookie.
Modified by mar778c at 9:12 PM 11/28/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL, really? wow amazingly super. i never said i couldnt get the AF perfect.. what i said is that i was worrying about other things.. like timing and why it was not changing power..
shiet tune? damn you must of hacked my laptop and got to my bin.. damn teach me how to do that!!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Again why would you even mess with it if you knew the reading wasn't close to accurate. Thank God, I learned how to do my thing and not have to depend on others.
Maybe all that time you spent tuning, the exhaust gases got to you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well since i have a super sense of senses(7th sense) i can tell how the real AF is by getting high on exhaust gases
But if im tired that day; i use my wideband on the header, thats hooked up to the
displays on my laptop
yeah.. the gases always get to me
BS, the 1st car I tuned had a flat AF.
Second, if it wasn't obvious that was a s**t tune then you seem to be the rookie.
Modified by mar778c at 9:12 PM 11/28/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL, really? wow amazingly super. i never said i couldnt get the AF perfect.. what i said is that i was worrying about other things.. like timing and why it was not changing power..
shiet tune? damn you must of hacked my laptop and got to my bin.. damn teach me how to do that!!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Again why would you even mess with it if you knew the reading wasn't close to accurate. Thank God, I learned how to do my thing and not have to depend on others.
Maybe all that time you spent tuning, the exhaust gases got to you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well since i have a super sense of senses(7th sense) i can tell how the real AF is by getting high on exhaust gases
But if im tired that day; i use my wideband on the header, thats hooked up to the
displays on my laptop
yeah.. the gases always get to me
11-28-2007, 06:11 PM
#50
Re: (mmuller)
I hate internet BS like this because you wind up either talking past each other or the personal attacks.
This is my final comment.
When you 1st noticed the timing not changing the hp then you should have stopped tuning and start accessing whats wrong to your credit you did.
Based on the data I see, the motor is choked.
Everybody I know who tunes will unhook the exhaust to check especially if the motor is producing less than expected hp. This is a pain in the a** sometimes, but it will help you to diagnose.
Oh yeah, I take back my comment about s**t tune. That was not neccessary.
Modified by mar778c at 11:09 PM 11/28/2007
This is my final comment.
When you 1st noticed the timing not changing the hp then you should have stopped tuning and start accessing whats wrong to your credit you did.
Based on the data I see, the motor is choked.
Everybody I know who tunes will unhook the exhaust to check especially if the motor is producing less than expected hp. This is a pain in the a** sometimes, but it will help you to diagnose.
Oh yeah, I take back my comment about s**t tune. That was not neccessary.
Modified by mar778c at 11:09 PM 11/28/2007