Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please.
 

Modifications:
94 GSR - 80,000 miles - new bearings/rings as of 5,000 miles ago
ITR 98 Spec Camshafts
ITR Valve springs Int/Exh
JDM ITR 4-1 header
Blox IM
Hondata IM Gasket
Fidanza Adjustable Cam gears
AEM Short ram w/K&N
Head milled 12 thousandth
Honda OEM 3 Layer Head Gasket/gasket set

Stock Cat
G-Reddy Exhaust w/stock GSR muffler
NGK Spark Plugs, gapped 50
Chipped GSR ECU, Dyno Tuned w/Chrome
-------------------------------------------------

On the BLUE run, the mods were:
ITR header
AEM Intake, k&N
Greddy exhaust

Compression after rebuild: 215 across the board


On the RED run, thats with the ITR cams and whatnot.

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/...bestofboth.jpg

My tuner went from 28 degrees timing to 17 degrees timing and there was literally, 1/2 hp change. Why in the hell would that much timing difference change nothing?

It's not his fault, him and the owner of the dyno (he tunes 1,200 hp nobles) were both scratching their heads.

The car runs perfect, not a skip, not a hiccup of any kind. What am I overlooking that would hurt me this much? I should be nearly 20 HP and at least another 10 lbs tq higher than I am now. I'm making freaking D16 tq #'s.

The cam gears weren't adjusted.

Any help, so much appreciated. I've been racking my brain. http://is.rely.net/1-92-65076-l-NREc...mLFY3DaZnA.gif

And just so you can see, here's the overlay of all the runs together including the original run.
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/...ngoriginal.jpg


http://images.honda-tech.com/set1//smile/emcrook.gif

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
 

You have a stock GSR with ITR cams...were you expecting 200whp or what??? You have 155whp...this is close to a stock ITR engine with 200 flywheel HP...you numbers are correct in my opinion https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (DA_JDM)
 

I was expecting (from multiple dyno's) in the high 160's, low 170's with more than alot more than 95 lbs of tq in the mid range.

Thats the whole reason I went with this combo.... Because it's been proven to have significant gains.

In case a white graph is easier to see.
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/...hitegraphs.jpg


Modified by mac_24_seven at 8:11 AM 11/27/2007

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (DA_JDM)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DA_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have a stock GSR with ITR cams...were you expecting 200whp or what??? You have 155whp...this is close to a stock ITR engine with 200 flywheel HP...you numbers are correct in my opinion https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

Co-signed, numbers seem ok to me. Consider that every dyno is different…so, if you really want to know what your car can do go to the track, times and trap speed might be a better indication. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (b20sedan)
 

if you were using the oem gsr manifold originally, then that might account for some of the midrange loss.
Get rid of the gsr muffler, its got to be choking the motor.

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
 

Your prolem is your exhaust. Unhook the exhaust and see if it is faster.


I got 158 whp and 111 ft-lbs out of a b16a. It had 3" exhaust.

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mar778c)
 

One of the 12 video's. Nothing spectacular, but you can hear there's nothing going wrong with the engine https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/...un7upclose.jpg

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mar778c)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your prolem is your exhaust. Unhook the exhaust and see if it is faster.


I got 158 whp and 111 ft-lbs out of a b16a. It had 3" exhaust.</TD></TR></TABLE>


yeah i was thinking that is about b16 #'s https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif . try to make a few pulls on a open header and see what happens. other than that set u looks good. clean ingegra https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
 

I would adjust the cam gears and see what happens. Milling the head can retard cam timing to a degree.

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
 

nothing wrong looking with the curves, the torque just rides a little low, giving lower hp numbers. if there's nothing wrong with your engine, compression was fine you said, then i'd blame it on the dyno.

Well,I had like 163whp in my stock GSR with just I/H/E .

It says ITR cams ,but not if you replaced the pistons. My guess is that you've overcammed the engine since a GSR is 10:1 and an ITR is 11:1. You would probably make better power with stock GSR cams.
Also consider another header (I had a Toda on mine)

Re: (ce)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ce &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well,I had like 163whp in my stock GSR with just I/H/E .

It says ITR cams ,but not if you replaced the pistons. My guess is that you've overcammed the engine since a GSR is 10:1 and an ITR is 11:1. You would probably make better power with stock GSR cams.
Also consider another header (I had a Toda on mine)</TD></TR></TABLE>

hes fine with itr cams. i would uncap the exhaust and run it again. get some adjustable cam gears and do alil adjusting to see what makes more and what the motor likes. it is low but it could be better.

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
 

That A/F is not what I would consider good. If you paid for that tune, I would expect a flat ~13 at WOT all the way across.

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mar778c)
 

stock GSR muffler?

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mar778c)
 

Sounds about right, except for the .050 on the plugs. Type "R"s do not get much more, and you are not even there yet. D16's actually make good TQ. Did you adj. the valves?

Re: (ce)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ce &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well,I had like 163whp in my stock GSR with just I/H/E .

It says ITR cams ,but not if you replaced the pistons. My guess is that you've overcammed the engine since a GSR is 10:1 and an ITR is 11:1. You would probably make better power with stock GSR cams.
Also consider another header (I had a Toda on mine)</TD></TR></TABLE>

ITR's are 10.8:1 if I am not mistaken.

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (DonF)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds about right, except for the .050 on the plugs. Type "R"s do not get much more, and you are not even there yet. D16's actually make good TQ. Did you adj. the valves?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what research brought up on the gap.

And yes, the valves were adjusted when the head went back together.

And yes, I know the muffler is holding me back some, but I get migranes. A migrane and loud exhaust dislike each other immensely. If you get em', you understand.

I had a 5.0 that dumped before the rea axle w/2 chamber flowmasters and no cats: That killed my liking loud exhausts.

there are 2 things that i can think of.

1. off the bat is your restriction on the exhaust part.

2. is the cam degree. as you did mention milling of the head and not compensating for it through the cam gears.

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mac_24_seven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Modifications:
94 GSR - 80,000 miles - new bearings/rings as of 5,000 miles ago
ITR 98 Spec Camshafts
ITR Valve springs Int/Exh
JDM ITR 4-1 header
Blox IM
Hondata IM Gasket
Fidanza Adjustable Cam gears
AEM Short ram w/K&N
Head milled 12 thousandth
Honda OEM 3 Layer Head Gasket/gasket set

Stock Cat
G-Reddy Exhaust w/stock GSR muffler
NGK Spark Plugs, gapped 50
Chipped GSR ECU, Dyno Tuned w/Chrome
-------------------------------------------------

On the BLUE run, the mods were:
ITR header
AEM Intake, k&N
Greddy exhaust

Compression after rebuild: 215 across the board
</TD></TR></TABLE>

why in god's green earth do you still have the stock cat and the stock muffler on that motor??? can't believe you tuned your semi-stock motor with that shit on there. are you 16" rims too?? the bigger the rims, the lower your whp read out will be...think about it. the larger the rims, the more hp it will take to rotate that much more weight on the dynojet. oh yea...try upgrading your intake manifold as well https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif for best results, get a fuel pressure gauge, fuel pressure regulator and a walbro fuel pump, then retune...that should help https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (mac_24_seven)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mac_24_seven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was expecting (from multiple dyno's) in the high 160's, low 170's with more than alot more than 95 lbs of tq in the mid range.


https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/...hitegraphs.jpg


Modified by mac_24_seven at 8:11 AM 11/27/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok let me get this straight
you had LESS midrange after tuning? or am i reading this wrong. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emhammer.gif

didn't the "tuner" saw that the engine didn't respond well from 3300 to 6000 rpms with whatever fuel/ign numbers was running there after he tuned it?

other thing the a/f graph isnt as smooth as you would like it to be...

Re: Dyno'd my GSR last night.. Unexpectedly low #'s. Look please. (acydphryck)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by acydphryck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
for best results, get a fuel pressure gauge, fuel pressure regulator and a walbro fuel pump, then retune...that should help https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would he need any of these things? His stock pump, injectors and regulator can easily handle the power output of his engine and more.

You're right about the cat convertor, it's less than 2" through the flange, big restriction, even more than the muffler.

He only milled the head .012", not enough to require any correction from the cam gears. It takes roughly .040" reduction (either from milling, using a thinner gasket or a combination of both) to require 1 cam degree (2 crank) correction. That doesn't mean that playing with the cam gears might not find him a few hp though.

The air fuel doen't look right to me either. It's not that it has to be 13:1 across the board because that's only the best theoretical place to start from. After that, you see what the motor likes/wants. The curve just looks really "untuned" to me.

Power output is fairly close to where I would think it should be for a motor like this. Again, different dyno's read differently so just remember that the dyno is a tuning tool, the track will let you know where you're at.

i noticed that ur motor makes more power in the midrange with the a/f in the mid-high 12's. i mean, to me it looks like the 141whp graph would net much better drivability and a quicker 1/4. look at the graph. at 5500rpm, run1. makes 15whp more, and i'd say a good 15-20wtq more. not to mention an average of roughly 10wtq more across a 2000rpm window. poor tune. nuff said

Re: (Rollo Lawson)
 

1. Remove the cat if you have one, remove exhaust restrictions.
2. Did your tuner sync your ignition timing ?
3. Complete a compression/leak down test.
4. Gap your plugs down a little more :-)

Re: (mtber)
 

I have the cat because I had a horrid rattle/buzz when I had no cat, just a test pipe, around 3,00 RPM. ANd the stock muffler because it's my DD and I get migraines fairly regularly.

Also, something about the A/F which I didnt' think abotu untill last night:
The owner of the dyno ( a tuner himself, only on domestics) said he heard an exhaust leak, which messes up the A/F readout, which he's right, I DO have a small leak. Thus why the A/F looks weird,... WHich really, thats throws off everything.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by acydphryck &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
are you 16" rims too?? the bigger the rims, the lower your whp read out will be...think about it. the larger the rims, the more hp it will take to rotate that much more weight on the dynojet. </TD></TR></TABLE>

My wheel/tire combo weighs less than 1lb more than my stock Fat fives on stock tires https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif Drag wheels FTW. Lighter than Rota GT3's https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif So the wheel weight is a moot point.

Overall, it was a mistake on my part running with the exhaust I have, I realize that more now.

As far as compression, it was 215 across the board 2 weeks after it was rebuilt https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

I agree with the 2nd poster, mods aren't that heavy to where there should be much more power...