FeatherWeight

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by irev210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Okay, hurray for someone that has absolutely nothing to say but recommend ARP for no reason cept "he isnt familar with crower"


Even if a company claims to have XXX tensil strength,XXX sheer strength, grade XXX bolt, you want consistancy...

Seriously, I dont know how you can tell someone to spend over a 160 dollar on something you know nothing about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not no reason, can you agree that crower isn't known for their rod bolts? can you agree that arp is known for sperior quality in bolts?

Would you trust something you're not familar with? a completely new motor isn't cheap after a rod goes sailing through your block.

Yes we want consistancy.. can you say ARP doesn't provide more consistancy vs. crower?

$160 on rod bolts? you gotta be kidding me, where are you sourcing out your parts?

I know nothing about? I know arp's makes nothing but the best in bolts, I know that I can trust them with something as critcal as a rod bolt. A rod bolt isn't just a rod bolt when you're spinning 9000 rpm's.

You came into this post w/ nothing to say but to bash on me? Hurray to you. .

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by irev210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What if these crower bolts are 10x better than ARP? What would you say?

Honestly, when you DONT know, you should say

"ARP is established, but I dont know anything about crower bolts, it would be interesting to see how they stack up."
or
"Crower has been making engine parts for years, they build very high quality parts, as does ARP. It would be interesting to check out both manufacturing processes"

My OPINION-

Both are well suited for anything 99.9% of consumers can throw at it.

Crower has high quality standards, just like ARP.

You guys can keep arguing about something you have no facts on...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would say prove it.

Do you have the money to see "how they stack up" once the motor takes a ****? or would you have a extra security and just going w/ some arp's.

Crower does make nice parts.. but what are they known to manfacture well?

Facts? what more than you need, if its been proven.. I need to dig up a picure for you. Full blown race motor out of a sprint car, rod goes out the block. Rod bolts/caps didn't seperate, the actual rod took a **** before the the bolts did. Guess what bolts it had.

In ARP I trust.

h22John

Nothing is wrong with stating your OPINION. Even if your attitude does suck. Insulting people on a whim here isn't going to help you either. Just don't whine when people throw it right back in your face..................John

irev210

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nothing is wrong with stating your OPINION. Even if your attitude does suck. Insulting people on a whim here isn't going to help you either. Just don't whine when people throw it right back in your face..................John</TD></TR></TABLE>

yup

and he still continues to argue somethign he knows nothing about

it is honda-tech, what can you expect

Clayton

iTrader: (1)

I'll be the first to say it I guess, and since I actually manufacture bolts for a living, maybe I have a slightly more informed position. I highyl doubt that anyone in here actually knows what goes into making a bolt, or whether ARP or Crower makes better bolts. However having said that I can tellyou that ARP bolts are a decent quality bolt, but in all reality, they aren't that great (strength wise) and yes, I have actually tested them. No I am not going to post the results of the testing, as it would mean nothing to most people who don't manufacture bolts.

Clayton

FeatherWeight

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by irev210 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yup

and he still continues to argue somethign he knows nothing about

it is honda-tech, what can you expect

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea you must be the greastest HT'er ever.

How about you respond to my post.. or do you have nothing good to say but bs here and there?

irev210

I never BS'd about anything, unlike you, recommending to go with ARP for BS reasons.

Why dont you ask Clayton, I am not going to make **** up, I am only suggesting that you should back up your claims.


Buy ARP, but dont try to say company X is better than company Y with out any reason. Totally pointless

anyway, I am done with this.


I hope clayton sheds some light on this for all of us h-t'ers so we can come away with something from this thread

Clayton

iTrader: (1)

Bump...I'm going to put a picture up in this thread later today.

Clayton

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I'm going to try to put some of this whole bolt issue into perspective. Last night at work I was setting up a new part, and I was concerned about how the setup was going, so I took a part out of the process and and a stress test done on it. Basically, the part hadn't been stress relieved or heat treated, and we did a tensile test on it. This is what I found.


Sorry for the ***** quality, but I'm no photographer.

What you're looking at is a 3/4" -10 flange bolt. It has been cold headed, and threaded but not heat treated. The distortion is from 35000 psi tensile pull. the result is exactly what I wanted. the part was starting to separate in the threads (which as a boltmaker is a good thing). Keep in mind that it took 35000 psi to make the bolt do this, and it is not hardened yet. after hardening it will need to withstand 50,100 psi before it deforms. Now the fact that this is a 3/4" part, it does take more stress than a 3/8" part, but none the less you can understand the type of forces these bolts can withstand. Having said that...I'd be willing to bet that the Crower bolts and ARP bolts would take similar amounts of punishments before they ever failed catastrophically. With that in mind, half of the threads (no pun intended) that I read about using ARP headstuds, and rod bolts blah blah blah are wasted $$$. Then again half the mods I see people make to their motors are unnecessary. If people didn't spend so much on parts that aren't needed they could actually use better parts in their assembly.


Clayton

h22John

Thanks for helping Clayton. 99% of the time I think failures are due to poor installation rather than bad parts...........anyway good job.................John

b19coupe

Interesting info
I can add that I have been running Crower rods for about 4 years with frequent trips to 10k, no rod or rod bolt failure (Crower bolts).

Tbone

For those who are interested, carillo uses SPS CAR(ILLO) bolts.. I coat alot of aerospace SPS bolts..

BryanPendleton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Clayton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">....The distortion is from 35000 psi tensile pull. the .... Keep in mind that it took 35000 psi to make the bolt do this, and it is not hardened yet. after hardening it will need to withstand 50,100 psi before it deforms..... Now the fact that this is a 3/4" part, it does take more stress than a 3/8" part, but none the less you can understand the type of forces these bolts can withstand...... Having said that...
Clayton</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your "report", I believe misuses terminology. First of all STRESS does not equal FORCE, and you appear to be using them as equals which is incorrect. High quality studs and bolts for automotive applications take on yield strengthS of 90K psi to 100K+ psi. This is the force per square inch of cross-section before the material begins to permanently deform. The bolt you show has clearly plastically (ie. permanently) deformed, and you claim at only 35,000psi. Are you sure you don't mean it yield at 35,000 LBS?

Also you claim that a smaller 3/8 bolt will take less stress than a 3/4. This too is incorrect, if both bolts are the same material and heat treat ops. If they are the same material and heat treat, the will yield at the same stress levels. The 3/4 bolt will fail at a larger FORCE, but the STRESS will be the same as failure point of the 3/8 bolt when it fails at a lower FORCE, with failure being the point of plastic deformation. ie.

Estimated cross-sections:
3/4 bolt = .4 in^2
3/8 bolt = .1 in^2

Force which bolt begins to yield:
140,000 x .4 = 56,000 lbs for the 3/4 bolt
140,000 x .1 = 14,000 lbs for the 3/8 bolt

The STRESS is the same at failure of these bolts, but the 3/8 will only hold 14k lbs as opposed to the 3/4 bolt which will hold 56k lbs.