koczeka

I am running it (85.5x89 lsvtec) currently on euro 100oct what would be around 95oct in the states.
Ignition is at knocking limit, full timing is a few more degrees (depending on load and rpm as I see).



Edit> I am running coated Endyn pistons and not small Rocket M25 cams.

Nikos

It can be done but it is harder on Bseries than Kseries for example.. The variable intake cam really helps on the kseries motors if you are running the right cam.

We run a k24a with 13.5 compression for a few years on pump gas and race gas on the drag strip and when we took it apart we were suprised how good the motor looked..

alterdcreations

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/e85-stations-across-usa-2490210/

this list should help get you down the highway

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

This is exactly when you will be pinging the most and doing the most damage to your motor.

98vtec

the problem is that you have no idea what your timing really is.

koczeka

Maybe, maybe not...
We logged live both ECU (tracking the cell and the REAL output) and knock level using Gizzmo Knock stuff and made real time changes... then checked all over again in order to use proper timing. It was about 2 well worthed hours.

GoldLudeRay

order full drums of e85 from rocket fuel,,,it is cheaper than anykind of race gas,,,,,kinda a pain if ya ask me but usually a full built motor is a pain,,,,,one of the few things i like about the midwest e85 allmost everywhere

kgibson16

what this suppose to be jab to anyone who disagrees with Bugermass? u dont need to practice to talk about it. Bugermass has not gave any insight onto how its simple to run that compression on pump. plain and simple you'll have more problems running that compression
than something more conservative for pump. maybe u can run that compression on the dyno in a controlled environment but daily driving is a whole different story. intake air temp, cylinder head temp, plug heat range, are these not important factors in the fuel pre igniting causing knock? im not picking a fight but i asked for good input but u nor Bugermass gave any and it seems like the majority of people here think its a bit risky running 13.5.1 on pump.

94allmotor

iTrader: (1)

how much is a drum ill order 5 and leave it in my garage

94allmotor

iTrader: (1)

i understand that its not a good idea running pump on 13.5.1 motor but now im asking how reliable it would be if i mix pump and race gas

94allmotor

iTrader: (1)

dammit the closest E85 station is about an hour away

Bugermass

I never said it was a good idea to do this, or that it was worth the hassle.. I said that it is possible and has been done.. Those are to very different statements.

Yes you can run a 93/racegas mix. Just be sure you use the same type of race gas every time.. I had a 85X92 stroker with custom pistons that were right at about 280 on a compression test, with a set of Toda A's. I drove it daily on pump gas, in houston where the weather is super hot and muggy.

sauceja

intake air temp, cylinder head temp, plug heat range

Don't forget about coolant temps, oil temps and everything else that can usually see higher temps on a dyno than on the street if not controlled right.

So therefore a dyno tune could actually be safer on the streets. Considering you have more moving air in some instances.

kgibson16

ok i can def tell u sitting in traffic in the summer on lets say rt 405, 101, i10 in cali is far worse than dyno testing. your keeping on eye on the temps on the dyno and can stop when they get to hot. when your sitting in traffic and got no where to go the heat isnt gonna go anywhere but heat soak everything around it. like i said above on the dyno your in a controlled environment.

DonF

Look, we allready know you are going to run it, as you got it cheap. You are looking for validation, and you got it from some, not from others, let us know how it runs and how long it lasts.Thanks and good luck.

Conan the Destroyer

this is the proper answer to the majority of the threads on here at any given point.

98vtec

are you a tuner or do you tune?

kgibson16

no i do not thats why i asked earlier for some good input. since i dont tune cars does that mean i am not suppose to disagree with one or question something he says? i am simply interested in this particular subject and challenged what someone said, i see no harm in that so i dont know why your trying to belittle me in trying to imply that i dont know what i am talking about cause im not a tuner.

94allmotor

iTrader: (1)

so right now im thinking im gonna tune it on a dyno and see how it runs in the streets

98vtec

strictly dyno tuning is not enough.

98vtec

all your little intake temperature, cold starts, ECT comps, plug heat range...etc can all be fixed through tuning and having a competent tuner who knows how to do it. If you dont know how to do it, do your research and find someone who does know how.

If you are wanting to learn how then there is nothing in the internet that will teach you how to tune. Give you basics on how something works sure and that stuff can be found by buying books. Not listening to people on the internet who likely have 0 experience and are just jabbering off of what they heard someone else say.

92TypeR

I've tuned a 12.8:1 B-series on 92 octane that ran to 34*BTDC before knock. With that said, the pistons were coated, and he was running Buddy Club 5's, they have huge amounts of low lift duration which helps pressure bleed-off during valve overlap. Apples to oranges here. If you applied proper practices for running high cylinder pressures on "pump gas" you can push the boundries further than what most people here can realize.

Can you run this motor on 93 octane? Yes.

Will it make more power with a higher octane fuel? Of course.

Will it make crap for power? No, you will make good power, and you can possibly run some decent timing if you select the right cam and adjust cam timing to suit your build.

Koczeka - Your timing is horridly low, I don't know what your static compression is, but you are not running the proper cam to match your motor. Also, your timing at peak horsepower should be higher than at peak torque. Do some reading on BMEP as a function of torque and engine speed. In general, your timing at peak HP will be roughly 5-10% higher than at peak torque, assuming your are tuning to MBT.

94allmotor

iTrader: (1)

thats why i will get it tuned by a shop that deals mostly with hondas and see how it runs

kgibson16

that is what i am not doing. i am questioning on that compression some stuff is out of the tuner's hands. i was saying before that air temp and cylinder head temp will rise is such regular driving situation such as traffic. theres really nothing u can adjust for when the car is just getting heat soaked sitting in traffic in hot temps. so when its heat soaked is it not questionable that it might effect 13.5.1 on 91-93 octane and start pinging. if this sounds way off correct me then. im not big builder or tuner but i have had a couple good mild builds, dont believe pm me i'd give u all the info. dont understand why your all snippy cause i challenged what somone said. it gets debated and hopefully good useful info can come out of the debate. so if im wrong and someone corrects me everyone reading and myself benefit from the new useful info. so is it not questionable that heat transfer to the engine in typical summer traffic would have a effect on the motor on a already cutting it close 13.5.1 comp on 93?

koczeka

Static cr is ~13.6:1.
I run Endyn coated pistons and Rocket M25 cams.
To be honest I no not care what the book says, I believe in logged data from the proper tool and my ear, so we pulled a few degrees after (expected) peak TQ.
Next tuesday I can show U the dyno chart where I compare 12.6cr vs. 13.6cr on the same exact config.