itr1244

ya. it needs some ecu tunes. brake pads and good shocks and good driver haha

ya there are no cars out there to replace the R

Todd00

The ITR is as perfect handling of a bone-stock car that has ever and probably will ever be made. It had a good solid chassis, double-wishbone, decent weight and suspension tuning that was almost perfect.

So, in a sense, the ITR is where the bar is set at. Everything else is below it. 100% perfect? No. The best there probably will be? Yes.

That's the planet we live on. No FWD McStrut car that weighs 250lbs more will *ever* be as good (aka Cobalt SS).

The 'ring is all about power. That and it has never been released what tires that one Cobalt run that's so popular on youtube were made on.

Most newer cars have significantly more rubber and more power. Just because the lap time is faster does not mean the chassis is better. McStruts already have one serious whammy going against them as that setup is far from ideal for a FWD platform. But, enough power and enough rubber and it can be made fast.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

^yeah...you pretty much repeated/elaborated on stuff I already said. Except the crazy part about the ITR being as close to a perfect handling stock car ever made. It handles well...but...y'all cray cray.

safedriver

iTrader: (1)

So, I wonder...what question, does the owner of a Cobalt SS hear most often?

Who fixes your car?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I had someone follow me into a parking lot to "make sure it was real and there was nothing funny going on" as if he was the ITR police.

safedriver

iTrader: (1)

92TypeR

Let's not forget that the rear suspension is torsion bar/beam...

racebum

this isn't a comment designed to defend the cobalt

but

porsche made mac struts work well, so has bmw

corvette made fiberglass leaf springs work....really well

odd suspension designs have been effictive

even though i can't understand why corvette hasn't gone to a coilover. i've never seen a car with suspension so well designed for one, then not use it

itr1244

i love my itr just as much as all of you guys here..
but this guy must be smoking something real good..
send me some over here.

focus svt handles very good as well. :D

98ITR747

You made me go look up the times on the Cobalt. I'm actually surprised that it's as quick as it is.

Here's the official times for a comparison. The Cobalt SS was 20 seconds faster on the ring. It's faster but I wouldn't say it's "much" faster the way you described. To put things in perspective the NSX R has the same time as a Ferrari 360 Challenge and anything under 8:00 at the ring is seriously fast.

Integra R 8:43
Cobalt 8:22
NSX R 7:37

racebum

some of these times are so dependant on driver, for example the c6 z06 is listed at a 7:22 and a 7:42 with two different drivers.

fastest stock time i found on an NSX-R was 7:56 driven by Motoharu Kurosawa, where did you see the 7:37?

DC5yo

iTrader: (20)

I'm at 144k right now. About a quart an oil change. (3k miles with full synthetic.).


I don't rev the living daylights out of it, nor has it ever been tuned or modded internally. Simple valve adjustments and Timing belt/water pump replacement. It is interesting to hear people compare cars.

COLIMA0003ITR

iTrader: (2)

just gotta say i love my itr

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

The Cobalt SS/TC has a roughly 60 hp advantage...

racebum

that's awesome. my last one burned a qt every 1200 miles from the day i got it. this new engine has tan exhaust valves in all 4 so i hope it's more along the lines of what you're saying. it's lower mile and jdm, but i swear. how you take care of it and driving habits are more important than miles any day.

bigpunn421

stage 2 cobalt ss/sc run low 13s on street tires. they are quick cars but i would rather have the itr with a jrsc

98ITR747

Supercars.net

JDM CTR '00

iTrader: (2)

That thing is really ugly...I'll take a salvage ITR over that any day.

Tight-R

ITR owners = the big fat friend.

How would a fat, ugly, and most importantly low self esteem woman, describe a much more beautiful woman?

Fatty - Well she's got a lot of makeup on
Reality - She's still better looking
Fatty - She got liposuction
Reality - She's still better looking
Fatty - Her ***** are fake
Reality - She's still better looking

Lets compare that to these ITR owners

ITR Owner - But it has more power
Reality - It's still faster
ITR Owner - But it rattles cause it's a piece of ****
Reality - It's still faster
ITR Owner - But the ITR is the best handing car in it's class
Reality - It's still faster

Bunch of fatties up in here. OMGWTFBBQ someone just hurt your feelings. Reality bitches. Reality. Some of you live on a different planet it seems, surely you jest!

Tight-R

One more important thing, before the wrong impression is made. I would take an ITR over any FWD car. It is, and always will be, one of my top 5 favorite cars, including cars with million dollar price tags. Just sometimes you have to realize, it's not the only FWD car in existence, it's not always going to come in first. There's some nasty FWD platforms out there now.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

^I cant think of too many new platforms that are hella faster. There might be a couple of new platforms are slightly faster but it depends on the situation. A stock SRT-4 is prbably faster than the R around Road America. Does that make the SRT a better platform? Hell no.

I don't think a stock Cobalt SS-S in reality is much faster than a stock type R. They're both probably within a half second or less of each other in the 1/4, the braking distances are probably close with the same type of tire. I bet the ITR still handles better, so....faster slalom and bigger skidpad #s.

Maybe the SS-S is faster overall due to it's powerband and higher power output. But I bet if you took both around gingerman or autobahn south, it would be in the ITR's favor. It'd be interesting to watch both cars around a longer track...but the Cobalt wouldn't be handing out any beatings.


The fact that I can say all that about an old *** econo car is AMAZING. If we're not talking about sheer performance numbers, the ITR's advantage grows. Tell me the SS-S feels anywhere as awesome as a type R. The ITR's gear spread, engine note, and overall feel is 100X nicer. GM has never been big on driver engagement or fun. Their cars make numbers. That's all GM owners understand, though.

Once you start modding them, any advantage the ITR had goes out the window since smart SS-S owners would exploit the car's power tuning ability. Modded cars are hard to judge.

It's in the same sense that S2000s and stock EVOs are equally matched because of different advantages in different areas.....but EVOs with $1-2k worth of mods can dust S2000s with $5+k worth of setup.

Tight-R

I was mostly referring to the Cobalt that was in this thread, modded perhaps being the point I was going after.

Hondas reach a limit pretty quickly, where as other FWD modern platforms with boosted motors have quite a bit of ways to go with just tuning alone. The TQ of a Cobalt would be it's biggest advantage of course. Given a properly driven ITR will reap the same benefits if driven correctly. It's like a MT car vs an AT car. The AT car is going to be more consistent, and easier to drive. A cobalt can make up a shitty corner with its power band right away where as an ITR take 1/2 the lap to do the same, or more. The GTR is much faster than a lot of cars, because of it's advantages. You can't say the car isn't short of bad *** because it has computers doing all the work for you. It's faster, and can be driven around a course faster than a Z06 while drinking a cup of Joe. Yea, so what, it's still faster. Can't hate on technology just because it's better than your outdated car. It doesn't have that "feeling" but it's still faster. Yaknowhatimean?

I can't say I'm standing up for the Cobalt (although it's a pretty awesome car, the turbo ones at least) I'm just tired of listening to the ITR owners highly overrate their cars, and take away others because it's not an almighty TYPE R. You have to give credit where credit is due. That bolt on Cobalt can not only keep up with, or beat an ITR, it can also take 4 adults places comfortably, has cruise control, etc. Imagine if it had the engineering and thought put into like an ITR has. It would be a FWD GTR.

Tight-R

Also, a Stock SRT-4 would get it's *** kicked by a GSR, let alone an ITR. From the articles I've read, it handles like ****. Terrible chassis, suspension, brakes, etc. There's a cobalt that ran some battle of import cars, given it was a race car (as were the others) and it came out on top. This was a couple years ago, it was like 3 different colors. Trying to find the info on it. Beat skylines, NSX, evo's, etc. It's pretty much the only promising FWD American platform. The Mazdaspeed cars are pretty crazy too, but that was a while ago, I think the newer ones aren't as quick.

Tight-R

Found some info, as you can see it was a race-car, well a time attack car to be exact.

Tight-R

Here's a link to it's times and cars it beat.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/eve...11_timeattack/