onyx00

I have bled almost 7 times now over the past week or so.

Each time no air comes out of the calipers except for the rear drivers side caliper. Everytime there is air in that caliper (it is the last caliper to bleed in the Helms manual for brake bleeding).

Ideas on why this is? How can air keep getting in to that caliper?

My brakes will be fine for a day or so, and then start to soften up.

If I drive the car hard, then the brakes feel fine. Likewise at high speeds they feel great. no sure what is going on :-(

type r 01-1063

Sounds like there's a leak somewhere in the system. Any fluid leaking from the brake master cylinder?

Bbasso

Did you change the lines recently?

this does sound like a leak somewhere.
If not look for dampness where the flexable line meets the solid. And where the bleeder sits, maybe the threads got a bit messed up. BTW do you have speed bleeders?
Also it could be a MC problem, but check the lines first.

92TypeR

Or buy a manual speed bleeder and finish the entire project in 20 minutes while eliminating the chance of air feeding its way back into the calipers

onyx00

I haven't changed the lines and haven't noticed any leaks.

At this point the breaks will feel great when the engine is high on the RPM scale.

Not sure about the air in that rear caliper though. I might just but a pressure bleeder and see if that does the trick.

This is quite the pain in the ***.

JeffS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackdc5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Can anyone help as to why the HELMS says to do it differently than what is commonly said about bleeding brakes? People say to start at furthest from MC, HELMS says to start on the caliper right next to the MC.
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The helms varies between cars and even between years of cars.

FWIW, the 98 integra helms says to start at the front left as well.

onyx00

I bled agian today (less than 24 hours after my last bleed) and now I have air in both rear brakes.

Is it possible the SpeedBleeders are leaking air in? Maybe the thread sealant is worn? I had these SpeedBleeders sitting in a box for quite awhile unused and just put them in last weekend.

Should I just give up on Speedbleeders and go back to stock bleeder screws? And if I do, do I need to work about air leakage from the threads with the stock bleeder screws?

onyx00

Dammit, someone help me.

CPR

Put the old bleeder screws back on, get a partner to help you out, and bleed the old-fashion way.

.RJ

Helms = Factory service book
Commonly said = ???

I know which procedure i follow...

JeffS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackdc5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What I am saying though is people say to bleed starting on the caliper furthest away from the MASTER Cylinder.</TD></TR></TABLE>

"People" are just repeating what they've heard someone else say on a messageboard.

Dr Pooface

Bleed order is irrelevent.

I think your speedbleeders are leaking or your caliper seals are gone. Any evidence of fluid leakage? Check on the firewall where your lines are mounted too.

Dr. EKology

Ditch the speedbleeders and see how that goes, if all is fine after returning to stock, then you'll know exactly what the problem was.

JeffS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onyx00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Should I just give up on Speedbleeders and go back to stock bleeder screws?</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO, yes. I had two out of four speedbleeders fail within three track events (on a non daily driven car). I'll never use them again, nor encourage anyone else to.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Pooface &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bleed order is irrelevent. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Asahi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CPR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put the old bleeder screws back on, get a partner to help you out, and bleed the old-fashion way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I bleed my brakes with conventional screws all by myself. Put a silicon tube from a remote control shop (Airplane fuel line) on the bleeder nipple. Submerge it in just a bit of fluid in the bottom of a coke bottle or something. Pump away. No air will go back in as the niple is covered with fluid. Works better than speedbleeders IMo as I have seen too many problems with them. Plus this can be done with the wheels still on.

Asahi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

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It is irrellevant but will reseult in less efficient bleed and sometimes requiring a rebleed. As long as you bleed the air out order is pretty negiligble. I've done it both ways with no issue either way.

Dr Pooface

The brake system is just four tubes connected to a tub of fluid. Just because it's written in the helms doesn't mean you have to do it that way. For example, the helms says to use honda MTF, yet lots of guys have success with other fluids. Bleed order is total irrelevent.

b19coupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I bleed my brakes with conventional screws all by myself. Put a silicon tube from a remote control shop (Airplane fuel line) on the bleeder nipple. Submerge it in just a bit of fluid in the bottom of a coke bottle or something. Pump away. No air will go back in as the niple is covered with fluid. Works better than speedbleeders IMo as I have seen too many problems with them. Plus this can be done with the wheels still on.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the method I use when replacing the brake master cylinder and it works quite well. One note of caution: when bleeding the brakes by pumping the pedal be careful. If you go to the floor with the brake pedal, there is a chance that the built up corrosion inside the master cylinder can score the seals and make your brake master cylinder fail. This is not a problem on a new master cylinder.

And yes, ditch the speed bleeder.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bleed my brakes with conventional screws all by myself. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I do too... never had a problem.

Jack Black

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bleed my brakes with conventional screws all by myself. Put a silicon tube from a remote control shop (Airplane fuel line) on the bleeder nipple. Submerge it in just a bit of fluid in the bottom of a coke bottle or something. Pump away. No air will go back in as the niple is covered with fluid. Works better than speedbleeders IMo as I have seen too many problems with them. Plus this can be done with the wheels still on.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been tempted to try this approach, but I've noticed that it is possible for air to seep in around the threads of the bleeder plugs. Do you do anything special to prevent this or is it not really a problem?

onyx00

No fluid leaking from anywhere that I can tell. I am guessing it is the SpeedBleeders as well. To hell with these things. I will try going back to the stock bleed screws. Problem is I have to buy new ones since I can't find my originals (I know I saved them, but that was like 2 years ago and I have moved since).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Agent Smith &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've been tempted to try this approach, but I've noticed that it is possible for air to seep in around the threads of the bleeder plugs. Do you do anything special to prevent this or is it not really a problem?
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See, this is what I was thinking too because I am familiar with the method Asahi uses; I generally use it on my SpeedBleeders. But with the stock bleed screws there is no thread sealant, so I would think air seeping in from the threads would be an issue.