Flux

There is an interesting subject in the RR/AX forum (https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=933103) about JDM set-ups, particularly running wider tires up front along with the stiffer front springs to get lots of front end grip and aid the FF platform overcome the overworked front tires and the understeer that follows. I know from my autox days that many of the top ITRs were running 225 tires up front and 205 tires in the rear. I have been thinking of doing this same thing on the track. I curently have 12k springs up front and 10k in the rear with the 23mm rear bar.

Is anybody running staggered tires on the track and can share some real world experiences?

splitime

I'll point wai into this thread. His setup is one Im pseudo duplicating on my hatchcrap. I loved the feel of the 225 and 205 combo on the hatch with my last suspension and this current setup will almost require it to be tip top.

Dr. EKology

I agree with Split, Wai is your guy to talk to. However, I would also like to suggest maybe swapping your springs from front to back and vice versa and picking up a thicker rear bar. That also might give you the results you are looking for.

Wai

:raise hand:
I've been running the staggered setup and like it a lot. Here's a thread I started last year after the Expo:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=485129

Also, here's a comment from RR98ITR in one of the treads that he started:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Another thing - my opinion is that 205's are plenty of tire in the back. I'm not even using all of them, and I've still got all the rear grip I need.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only drawback is that you won't be able to rotate tires front and back.

Flux

Great, thanks Wai....

Are you still happy with that set-up or have you made some changes?
I think I will give the staggered tire approach a try when I buy some new tires tis winter. Did you experience any rubbing in the front with the 225s?

I'll work on camber after that. You are running signifigantly more than I am. I'm currently at -2.2* up front and -1.2* in the rear.

Wai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you still happy with that set-up or have you made some changes?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm still very happy with that setup. Actually I just bought a set of Avon race tires with F225/45-15 and R205/50-15. I can't wait to try them out.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think I will give the staggered tire approach a try when I buy some new tires tis winter. Did you experience any rubbing in the front with the 225s?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Rubbing depends on the wheel offset and the spring rates that you have. With +40mm or smaller, you should clear the inside fender well -- probably with a slight rub at full lock. As for rubbing the fender lip, you have to adjust the ride height accordingly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll work on camber after that. You are running signifigantly more than I am. I'm currently at -2.2* up front and -1.2* in the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>

For R tires, don't be afraid to put more negative camber on them. I had -3.5 for the expo, then after that I tried F-4 and it felt even better. The tail was more willing to step out during trail braking. But keep in mind that it's not the more camber the better. It is relative to the spring rates and you need to do some real testing to see what works best for you. Generally speaking, I think -3 would be a good starting point for R tires.

Good luck and keep us updated.

Flux

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm still very happy with that setup. Actually I just bought a set of Avon race tires with F225/45-15 and R205/50-15. I can't wait to try them out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Those are the same tires I am looking at...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rubbing depends on the wheel offset and the spring rates that you have. With +40mm or smaller, you should clear the inside fender well -- probably with a slight rub at full lock. As for rubbing the fender lip, you have to adjust the ride height accordingly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm running 15x7 with a 44mm offset. 12k/10k springs. I don't know my exact drop, but it isn't dramatic. I know I will have to play with height and possibly spacers to get everything working nicely.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For R tires, don't be afraid to put more negative camber on them. I had -3.5 for the expo, then after that I tried F-4 and it felt even better. The tail was more willing to step out during trail braking. But keep in mind that it's not the more camber the better. It is relative to the spring rates and you need to do some real testing to see what works best for you. Generally speaking, I think -3 would be a good starting point for R tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will take -3 as a good starting point up front. I understand that more doesn't always equal better. I'll probably start taking pyrometer readings to dial it in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Good luck and keep us updated. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for your input - very helpful.