justin.parker

Long story short.. snow & ice + azenis + darkness = passenger front side of integra saying hello to the curb.

Started with just looking at the alignment, no dice. Replaced upper and lower control arms..still no dice. Replaced entire knuckle...still no dice. Alignment was (prior to knuckle replacement) 3.23 degrees of toe, -2.2 degrees of camber and -0.3 degrees of caster. Knuckle replacement "fixed" some of the problem (visually) but still isnt fixed. I'm running out of ideas. What else is left? Subframe? Is there any visual way to tell if the subframe is warped/bent without taking lots of measurements from reference points..etc? The lower control arm I used as a replacement wasn't the full control arm...i only used the upper portion of it. I robbed the upper portion of it from a b16, and used the b18 bottom so I could still leave the sway bar attached. I'll try to get pictures if those will help, but i'm running out of ideas.

As far as I understand, camber can only be affected by upper, lower control arms, and the knuckle...and all of those were replaced with good parts. I changed the wheel to see if maybe the wheel was bent, but it wasnt. lol. From under the car the only thing that looks "bent" is the sway bar mounting bolt. At full droop (on a lift) it looks bent backwards towards the rear of the car, but i don't think that would be affecting camber or caster...i don't know.

Any ideas? I would appreciate any help.

Perfectionist

Lower control arm takes a hit in in that type of impact. If your replacement is good (a straight edge blade may let you see a kink), the mounting point(s) may be jacked up a bit. Other than taking measurements, I'm not aware of any easy ways to visually spot any problems.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

camber wont wear your tires. your toe is probably out. even if you cant see the toe visually, it might still be there. im willing to bet it is. that is really the only angle that wears tires significantly. camber BARELY wears tires.

justin.parker

I appreciate the replies. Yes, I'm aware that toe is still way out of spec... (to drive straight, the wheel still has to be turned maybe a half a turn to the right) but if i take it to an alignment shop they say they can't adjust the caster or camber..they can only reset toe. Which still leaves me with the camber and caster problem. Meaning, I think that something is still bent.

Would it be worth it to just get a new camber kit that sets both caster and camber? To me it would seem that it would work, but it would just hide the problem as opposed to actually fix it....any ideas?

Thanks again for the help.

97integraLS911

your sway bar is bent. mine did the same thing.. EASY to replace. took me an hour with an impact. the biggest bitch was gettin it down with the exhaust there.. i just unbolt my exhaust right there and it slid right out. but i went through almost EXACTLY the same thing. good luck

veth

i have exactly the same problem...well i think the subframe might be the problem ...it might be bent ......atleast ur axle didn't pop out like mine ...my axle doesn't fit in right ...lol sux though ....well whateva ....good luck in figuring it out

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97integraLS911 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your sway bar is bent. mine did the same thing.. EASY to replace. took me an hour with an impact. the biggest bitch was gettin it down with the exhaust there.. i just unbolt my exhaust right there and it slid right out. but i went through almost EXACTLY the same thing. good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

swaybars dont affect alignment angles.

To the OP, check your bushings, and lower control arm for bends. You might need a subframe. Subframes on those cars are easy because the engine does not sit on them. Might as well go to a junkyard and ****** one that looks good.

97integraLS911

it could very much affect the alignment. idk why u believe that it cant but it is mounted to the control arms and if it is bent/pulling/pushing on the control arm it can throw caster off a bit. i promise that it is possibly. i just had to replace mine due to curbage.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

a swaybar is attached to the control arm using a swabar link that i could break by stepping on (I'm 155lbs of pure pain, baby).

The control arm is attached to the chassis using 4 HUGE 19mm suspension grade bolts at two different pivot points.

The only reason a swaybar link can withstand the pressures of cornering is because the link gets pushed up and down. If you change caster, the link must pull towards to front or back of the car. The link PIVOTS....so it cant pull the control arm towards the front or back of the car. To change camber, it must pull towards or push away from the center of the car. If this happens, the swaybar link will break into a million peices before the control arm ever gets affected.

Again, the swaybar is attached to the control arm via a link. If the wheel was curbed, and the control arm bent towards the center of the car:
All the pressure goes to the control arms and spindle (and the wheel..duh). If by some freak chance, the swaybar was bent (the link would break first), it could ONLY get bent if the lower control arm moved (bent) enough for the swaybar to bend also.

Pushing the control arm towards the back of the car (or front) will bend a swaybar if the link is pulled on. However...this would leave the control arm and subframe so f**ked up that the swaybar would be the last of your concerns. If you ever managed to put the swaybar back on...like i said above..the link pivots....so the swaybar would just sit funny, but still have NO affect on alignment.

If the impact COMING FROM THE WHEEL was big enough for the swaybar to be affected, the wheel, control arm(s), possibly a hub and/or subframe are trash and you'll visibly see that. The control arm/subframe will be the culprit of the alignment.

If you leave a bent swaybar in and put a new subframe and control arm in, the link will either pivot and adjust to reach the bent swaybar, or you wont be able to put the link back on. If you put the link back on and the swaybar tries to tweak the control arm, it will either bend the bar more, or snap the link like a twig.

I'll hand it to you that it MAY affect caster a tiny tiny little bit...unlikely, because it would be bent inward/outward as well as backward/forward and the link wouldnt attach or it would just break when you put the car down....but where is the camber coming from?

If you can draw me a diagram showing how a swaybar can affect camber, i will take it all back.

justin.parker

Once again I appreciate all of the replies. Let me see if I can clear up some of what happened. Upon impact, the car still drove alright, the sway bar was not shattered nor was there any visible (at the time, it was completely dark outside and all i had was a flashlight) damage other than a slightly curbed wheel and the car drove a little funny.

Once I got it up on a lift and took the wheel off, I compared the lower control arm to a known straight one (taken from a b16, where no sway bar exists) and visibly the straight portion of the lower control arm the "lower portion" of the lower control arm was bent towards the rear of the car. That piece was replaced with the b16 portion. The "upper portion" of the lower control arm when compared to the one from the b16 looked fine, with no visible bends. I was then faced with a choice as to whether keep my original piece with the hope of no bends, or replace it with the b16 one and be forced to run no front sway until i got a replacement. I went with the former.

Once this was done, I took it back to an alignment shop where it was still out of spec (listed in the original post). I went back to the shop and since the lower control arm was replaced, I figured since camber was still off the upper one was bad as well. I replaced it with a known good one from another dc.

Taken once more to the alignment shop and it was still out of spec. Completely confused, I was unsure of what else could be. Back up on the lift with measuring tape the subframe "appeared" to be alright but it the entire knuckle assembly looked bent.. It was replaced with one from an eg/gsr...which required me to remove my abs since it didn't have any.

Taken once for the last time to the alignment shop and it was still out of spec. Which left me slightly aggravated as I had no idea what the problem was (other than subframe). I hope this clears some of the misunderstanding as to what happened and hopefully I can with your help figure out how to fix it.

My question still stands though, should I pick up a new camber kit which adjusts both caster and camber to "fix" the problem...ie just hide it. I don't feel this is the best option, but it is what i am being told to do.

Lastly, would pictures even help in understanding what is going on? If so, any specific places?

Thanks again everyone.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by justin.parker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Once again I appreciate all of the replies. Let me see if I can clear up some of what happened. Upon impact, the car still drove alright, the sway bar was not shattered nor was there any visible (at the time, it was completely dark outside and all i had was a flashlight) damage other than a slightly curbed wheel and the car drove a little funny.

Once I got it up on a lift and took the wheel off, I compared the lower control arm to a known straight one (taken from a b16, where no sway bar exists) and visibly the straight portion of the lower control arm the "lower portion" of the lower control arm was bent towards the rear of the car. That piece was replaced with the b16 portion. The "upper portion" of the lower control arm when compared to the one from the b16 looked fine, with no visible bends. I was then faced with a choice as to whether keep my original piece with the hope of no bends, or replace it with the b16 one and be forced to run no front sway until i got a replacement. I went with the former.

Once this was done, I took it back to an alignment shop where it was still out of spec (listed in the original post). I went back to the shop and since the lower control arm was replaced, I figured since camber was still off the upper one was bad as well. I replaced it with a known good one from another dc.

Taken once more to the alignment shop and it was still out of spec. Completely confused, I was unsure of what else could be. Back up on the lift with measuring tape the subframe "appeared" to be alright but it the entire knuckle assembly looked bent.. It was replaced with one from an eg/gsr...which required me to remove my abs since it didn't have any.

Taken once for the last time to the alignment shop and it was still out of spec. Which left me slightly aggravated as I had no idea what the problem was (other than subframe). I hope this clears some of the misunderstanding as to what happened and hopefully I can with your help figure out how to fix it.

My question still stands though, should I pick up a new camber kit which adjusts both caster and camber to "fix" the problem...ie just hide it. I don't feel this is the best option, but it is what i am being told to do.

Lastly, would pictures even help in understanding what is going on? If so, any specific places?

Thanks again everyone.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol you took a control arm from a B16? I'm assuming you mean Eg.

Anyway..."hiding" the problem will make it look good to an alignment machine. But imagine this:

Your subframe pickup for your LCA is bent inward...causing positive camber (one scenario). So you "fix" the camber with a camber kit as much as you can. Your wheel will be pushed into your fender more (less flush). This may cause problems with interference with the tire hitting the spindle, and will look dumb.

Since i doubt your subframe pickup for your LCA bent OUTWARD, we will ignore the other scenario, but you can see where im going with it.

Buy a subframe from a junkyard. Theyre cheaper than a camber kit, and will fix your problem right.