Alright guys,

A buddy of mine does not understsand that you should be shifting at redline, or when your engine stops making power. For example, if you're running a i/h/e B18b paired with a B16 tranny he would be faster shifting at the 7K rpm redline.

But he claims that shifting at 7500 due to a "remapped" ecu is more beneficial since shifting at 7500 rpm's allows:

2nd gear to top out at 60 mph instead of 50 mph
3rd at 80 mph instead of 70 mph
and 4th at 100 mph instead of 90 mph

Please chime in and share your insight on this. I do understand the notion of wanting to stay in a shorter gear longer. But also, I believe it's more important to shift at redline or when your engine stops making power to maintain to land in your powerband.

However, since he is running a B16 tranny the car still continues to pull up to 7500 rpm's due to the short gearing.

So in other words he believes an i/h/e/B16 tranny LS shifting at 7500 rpm's will out run the same car shifting at 7000 rpm's.

So what do you guys think?

 

If you dyno the car, you'll know exactly where the engine is making power. Shift a little after the engine is making peak power where the next gear will land you at a section of the power curve that will net you the highest average power output between shifts. It's impossible to accurately calculate this without dyno charts.

 

Goodpoint the only way to determine is by having a dyno sheet available. However, given that it's a B18b and if I'm not mistaken LS motors stop making power at 6500 rpm or at the redline so it should not be necessary to rev up to 7500 if the car is no longer making power since its a stock LS head.

Unless I'm missing something that a remapped ecu will allow the car to make power up to 7500?

But his counter argument is that since he's running a B16 tranny his car still pulls strong up to 7500 rpm's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dayvid05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unless I'm missing something that a remapped ecu will allow the car to make power up to 7500?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Changing the tune will alter the power curve a bit, but nothing that drastic, at least not coming off of a stock ECU.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dayvid05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But his counter argument is that since he's running a B16 tranny his car still pulls strong up to 7500 rpm's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Your buddy is a moron. The gear ratios have nothing to do with where the engine is making power.

 

Your buddy is a moron. B18B1's redline is at 6700rpm-6800rpm. B16/B18c trannys are a big upgrade if your sticking with a B18a/b. Unless your buddy's car is tuned and has internal work then maybe but tell him, he's gonna shot a rod threw his block.

 

LOL....yeah that's exactly what I was telling him a bolt on LS with a B16 tranny should not be shifting at 7500 rpm's even if it's running on a remapped ecu unless he has cams or headwork done.

What do you guys think about the point of a bolt on LS w/B16 tranny shifting at 7k vs. the same car shifting at 7500? He states the one shifting at 7500 will win because it is "staying" in a shorter gear longer. He gives me the example of 3rd gear maxing out at 80 mph compared to 70 mph and how 4th ends at 100 mph instead of 90 mph.

Thanks for the insight

 

Even if his ecu was remapped. LS rods bolts will eventually give up and he'll end up shooting a rod threw this block.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VRD^sam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even if his ecu was remapped. LS rods bolts will eventually give up and he'll end up shooting a rod threw this block. </TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

 

Ohh yeah, I forgot to mention he already has arp rod bolts which gives him the "peace of mind" of reving that high all day long.

But our argument was simply that a stock head will not be making power up that high without cams or headwork even with the aid of the B16 tranny that helps accelerate the car faster.

The example he gives me is the "staying in a shorter gear longer and maxing out at a higher mph" point is what I am agreeing with.

 

Man, i have the same argument with my friend all the time.

He doesn't understand that the motor stop's making power after redline.

ITS THERE FOR A DAMN REASON

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PhantoM.DA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man, i have the same argument with my friend all the time.

He doesn't understand that the motor stop's making power after redline.

ITS THERE FOR A DAMN REASON</TD></TR></TABLE>

A stock Honda engine does not stop making power after the redline. The redline is placed there to protect the engine and allow for a warranty. There is no "optimal" shift point for most stock Hondas because they make more power at redline then they do after shifting. As Kendall said, you need a dyno plot to determine an optimal shift point for an engine with a raised rev limit. The optimal shift point occurs when power in gear n equals the power in gear n+1.

 

watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj2nlF1hkEc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Way_TOO_FREAKIN_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">by the Mgen chip off ebey. i got me 1 of dem, and i dont got no redline no more. i **** whenevr. makes huge differnce in going fastr. i cellerate lot quiker now!

2 companies make dem chip. MGEN and S.Poon</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is some horrible advice...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by letsdrive &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj2nlF1hkEc</TD></TR></TABLE>

sweet i just sat here and read all the subtitles too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Way_TOO_FREAKIN_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">by the Mgen chip off ebey. i got me 1 of dem, and i dont got no redline no more. i **** whenevr. makes huge differnce in going fastr. i cellerate lot quiker now!

2 companies make dem chip. MGEN and S.Poon</TD></TR></TABLE>

hella fast y0!!!!!1111!!!!one

 

please stop typing like an idiot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dayvid05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do you guys think about the point of a bolt on LS w/B16 tranny shifting at 7k vs. the same car shifting at 7500? He states the one shifting at 7500 will win because it is "staying" in a shorter gear longer. He gives me the example of 3rd gear maxing out at 80 mph compared to 70 mph and how 4th ends at 100 mph instead of 90 mph.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Obviously he doesn't understand the time value. Let's say there is a doppleganger driving the same car the same way at the same time. While he spends extra time above the powerband (and I would take a guess and say 7500 is beyond the B18B's powerband), the person who shifted at the correct time (which is possibly past redline) is now in the lower range of the powerband. As the name implies, that's where the power is. But you can't know where the powerband actually is for sure unless you dyno it. This is what Kendall stated in the first response but I reworded it because your friend needs it

If he really believes what he says, tell him to remap his ECU to redline at 9k and he'll go super fast!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Way_TOO_FREAKIN_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">by the Mgen chip off ebey. i got me 1 of dem, and i dont got no redline no more. <u>i **** whenevr.</u> makes huge differnce in going fastr. i cellerate lot quiker now!

2 companies make dem chip. MGEN and S.Poon</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow...you just keep digging your own grave deeper and deeper, don't you?

It's people like you that give everyone else in this scene a bad name...and keep those companies who make garbage products like those in business. Good job. Now please stop giving out misguided, incorrect, and useless information.

back on topic...

Revving above even 7 in that engine seems to me as being useless because of how badly the B18B head flows...yeah it might take you to a higher speed in each gear, but if your powerband is dropping off so sharply after 6800rpm or so, there's no sense in revving that high. Even with ARP rod bolts, he might be "able" to rev that high, but nothing else was designed for it...especially the valvetrain.

Now if he does a serious port/polish on the head and gets some cams/valve springs, maybe 7500 might be useful...but again, as others have mentioned, he'll want to determine his shift points based on his power and torque curves.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Way_TOO_FREAKIN_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">by the Mgen chip off ebey. i got me 1 of dem, and i dont got no redline no more. i **** whenevr. makes huge differnce in going fastr. i cellerate lot quiker now!

2 companies make dem chip. MGEN and S.Poon</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you serious? How old are you? I expect a display of intelligence such as this to come from a bag of hammers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CompanyFlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Are you serious? How old are you? I expect a display of intelligence such as this to come from a bag of hammers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

every single one of his posts are useless and ignorant...

I vote BAN

 

dyyno tune and youll see where to shift... plain and simple. if he still calls bullshit; take it to the track and that will give him all the results he needs. make sure to make a few runs at both rpm ranges