rev-matching
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Downey, ca, u.s
Re: rev-matching (95vtec)
DUDE, why dont you drive in 2nd gear at 50mph and get the rpm down should be around 5000+, so when you drive at 3rd gear 50 and downshift to 2nd you know where it is, then just rev it higher to compensate the rpm from downshifted
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: rev-matching (2G0S0R1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2G0S0R1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes... during the acceleration through a gear, if you slip just enough clutch grip by a quick+partial clutch depression, then it will raise your engine rpms to a higher power output level (say 6800rpm... intead of the usual ~5000 rpm after your shift into 3rd or 4th.) Even though the tranny/wheels may have only accelerated their usual amount during this quick period of slippage... the engine is now at a higher rpm, so by then dropping the clutch back out quickly-> it causes a slight surge of power while the engine rpms catch up with the drivetrain and you finish the now very few rpms of that gear as normal and shift into the next gear quickly and normally.
Full throttle is depressed the ENTIRE time(except shifting), and the clutch is only quickly depressed a few mm... to lighten clamping force to just past the point of sliding friction. This allows you to raise the rpms by maybe only losing a few percent of your current acceleration and building up some high rpm horsies in the meantime to drop right out. This wont work with lightened flywheels very well because you are not producing as much potential energy with a smaller reciprocating/revolving mass as you would with a heavier mass at high rpms.
On most semi-stock compact vehicles, 3rd and 4th gear dont just fly by in 2 seconds, so trying this method during those 5,6,7,etc seconds of gear "pull" can help by a few feet.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
When you say acceleration through a gear, it sounds like you're saying you partially disengage the clutch BETWEEN shifting, like when you're normally just accelerating in the middle of the powerband or something. That would obviously be pointless to do that, so I'm guessing you mean during shifting.
In theory it may help (just as in theory power shifting could help), but when you think about the power and torque of our relatively small engines compared to the momentum and force of the ~2500-2600 lb vehicle, the weight and momentum of the vehicle is going to win out. If you raise the RPM higher than the engine RPM dictated by road speed (differential speed), final drive ratio, and gear ratios, and then engage the clutch, the higher RPM is not going to make the car go faster. Instead the weight of the car is just going to bring the RPM right back down again to where it was before.
It MIGHT work for a car with lots of torque and a VERY strong clutch disc and pressure plate, but on a Honda, probably not going to make any measurable difference.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sukii »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">speaking about popping the clutch, im curious to know. Lets say u are on the freeway and then u were in 5th gear doing about 60 and at abou 3k rpm. Isn't it really bad for the drivetrain and engine to pop your clutch when u shift down to 4th or 3rd because... lets say some idiot pulled up next to u and u wanted to race?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what is this "popping clutch" business anyway. If you're in 5th at 3K rpm which is 60mph and you need to downshift, you disengage the clutch, rev to around 6K RPM if you're going into 3rd, downshift to 3rd, engage the clutch, and open the throttle to accelerate. No big deal. The fact that you brought the engine RPM up to match the RPM needed at that road speed in that lower gear minimizes stress on the drivetrain. It's not bad for the clutch, as it's just doing its normal job, as long as you're not excessively slipping the clutch as you engage it at the higher RPM and lower gear.
Full throttle is depressed the ENTIRE time(except shifting), and the clutch is only quickly depressed a few mm... to lighten clamping force to just past the point of sliding friction. This allows you to raise the rpms by maybe only losing a few percent of your current acceleration and building up some high rpm horsies in the meantime to drop right out. This wont work with lightened flywheels very well because you are not producing as much potential energy with a smaller reciprocating/revolving mass as you would with a heavier mass at high rpms.
On most semi-stock compact vehicles, 3rd and 4th gear dont just fly by in 2 seconds, so trying this method during those 5,6,7,etc seconds of gear "pull" can help by a few feet.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
When you say acceleration through a gear, it sounds like you're saying you partially disengage the clutch BETWEEN shifting, like when you're normally just accelerating in the middle of the powerband or something. That would obviously be pointless to do that, so I'm guessing you mean during shifting.
In theory it may help (just as in theory power shifting could help), but when you think about the power and torque of our relatively small engines compared to the momentum and force of the ~2500-2600 lb vehicle, the weight and momentum of the vehicle is going to win out. If you raise the RPM higher than the engine RPM dictated by road speed (differential speed), final drive ratio, and gear ratios, and then engage the clutch, the higher RPM is not going to make the car go faster. Instead the weight of the car is just going to bring the RPM right back down again to where it was before.
It MIGHT work for a car with lots of torque and a VERY strong clutch disc and pressure plate, but on a Honda, probably not going to make any measurable difference.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sukii »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">speaking about popping the clutch, im curious to know. Lets say u are on the freeway and then u were in 5th gear doing about 60 and at abou 3k rpm. Isn't it really bad for the drivetrain and engine to pop your clutch when u shift down to 4th or 3rd because... lets say some idiot pulled up next to u and u wanted to race?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what is this "popping clutch" business anyway. If you're in 5th at 3K rpm which is 60mph and you need to downshift, you disengage the clutch, rev to around 6K RPM if you're going into 3rd, downshift to 3rd, engage the clutch, and open the throttle to accelerate. No big deal. The fact that you brought the engine RPM up to match the RPM needed at that road speed in that lower gear minimizes stress on the drivetrain. It's not bad for the clutch, as it's just doing its normal job, as long as you're not excessively slipping the clutch as you engage it at the higher RPM and lower gear.
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From: Tecks-us
Re: rev-matching (PatrickGSR94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Double-clutch downshifting takes alot more concentration and practice to get it right (and no you do NOT do it while drag racing!
). Really it's only necessary if you've got a racing transmission w/ dog (straight-cut) gears, or if your synchros or completely shot. Otherwise you really only need to rev-match when downshifting.
As for heel-toe downshifting, that's a technique that allows for downshifting during braking (you're on the brakes, disengaging the clutch, and blipping the throttle, all at the same time, and with only 2 feet
), but that usually incorporates just rev-matching, and not actual double-clutch downshifting. If you've ever watched those Best Motoring or Option videos and seen the camera pointed at the driver's feet, you will see them heel-toe downshifting, but they're only rev-matching, not actually double-clutching as they come down in gears. They're letting the synchros do what they were designed to do and not worrying about having to hit the clutch pedal twice during cornering and downshifting.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
well then i guess i should be bragging that i can heel-and-toe downshift so quickly with double-clutching. my tranny led a crappy life before i bought this car, so it needs it. no worries though. remember, 80% driver, only 20% car
if i wasn't able to manage shifting duties, maybe i would have rebuilt my tranny a long time ago, but it's just not that high on my priority list. i can still drive it very fast, and i don't care if other people can't shift my car. i'm the ONLY driver.
Modified by 95lstegman at 9:35 AM 1/27/2005
Double-clutch downshifting takes alot more concentration and practice to get it right (and no you do NOT do it while drag racing!
). Really it's only necessary if you've got a racing transmission w/ dog (straight-cut) gears, or if your synchros or completely shot. Otherwise you really only need to rev-match when downshifting.As for heel-toe downshifting, that's a technique that allows for downshifting during braking (you're on the brakes, disengaging the clutch, and blipping the throttle, all at the same time, and with only 2 feet
), but that usually incorporates just rev-matching, and not actual double-clutch downshifting. If you've ever watched those Best Motoring or Option videos and seen the camera pointed at the driver's feet, you will see them heel-toe downshifting, but they're only rev-matching, not actually double-clutching as they come down in gears. They're letting the synchros do what they were designed to do and not worrying about having to hit the clutch pedal twice during cornering and downshifting.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well then i guess i should be bragging that i can heel-and-toe downshift so quickly with double-clutching. my tranny led a crappy life before i bought this car, so it needs it. no worries though. remember, 80% driver, only 20% car
if i wasn't able to manage shifting duties, maybe i would have rebuilt my tranny a long time ago, but it's just not that high on my priority list. i can still drive it very fast, and i don't care if other people can't shift my car. i'm the ONLY driver.Modified by 95lstegman at 9:35 AM 1/27/2005
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From: OC, ca
Re: rev-matching (Sukii)
HAHAHAA Thanks everyone for helping me out on rev-matching. ahahaa i also learned about Double-clutching to haha its all good. the more i know the better it will be on my car. Hey how about stage 2 clutches ahahaa what then with rev matching and Double clutching ahaha. too much money to DC ahhaa
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Houston, TX, U.S.A.
Re: rev-matching (PatrickGSR94)
Pat, I have a question for you. Is it bad to completely come off the throttle while coasting in gear? I mean what does this do compared to putting in neutral and having the engine idle while coasting to a stop? Sometimes I dont downshift I just leave it in 4th lets say and come slowly off the throttle all the way then when I start braking I just go to neutral. I hope you know what I mean. Thanks.
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From: 11426, posts
Re: rev-matching (hotsuma23)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hotsuma23 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pat, I have a question for you. Is it bad to completely come off the throttle while coasting in gear? I mean what does this do compared to putting in neutral and having the engine idle while coasting to a stop? Sometimes I dont downshift I just leave it in 4th lets say and come slowly off the throttle all the way then when I start braking I just go to neutral. I hope you know what I mean. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
your bogging the engine down because it's in a high gear and the car isn't moving fast enough. This is the worst method of decelerating to a stop. If your not going to downshift your better off putting it in neutral and over heating your brakes, but the proper way is to
1. Clutch
2. Gear select to neutral
3. Let off clutch
4. Increase RPM (rev match)
5. Clutch
6. Selct lower gear
7. Let off clutch
That's the double clutching method, once you do it for a few days it will start to feel very fluid and you will relize that it's truley the least traumatizing to your teg.
Love your teg and it'll love you back, treat it as you would treat a woman.
your bogging the engine down because it's in a high gear and the car isn't moving fast enough. This is the worst method of decelerating to a stop. If your not going to downshift your better off putting it in neutral and over heating your brakes, but the proper way is to
1. Clutch
2. Gear select to neutral
3. Let off clutch
4. Increase RPM (rev match)
5. Clutch
6. Selct lower gear
7. Let off clutch
That's the double clutching method, once you do it for a few days it will start to feel very fluid and you will relize that it's truley the least traumatizing to your teg.
Love your teg and it'll love you back, treat it as you would treat a woman.
I fry gay turkeys
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,625
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From: 11426, posts
Re: rev-matching (2G0S0R1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2G0S0R1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bad for drivetrain and clutch... DEFINITELY...
possibly a faster "jump off the line", even though you are already moving... YES.
Recommended... NO</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm going to have to disagree with the "faster part" If you think of the semantics for a sec.
your in 5th gear, driving 55..
******** pulls next to you in an SRT 4.
You clutch, pick a lower gear and pop the clutch what happens?
You get thrown forward because the momentum of your car is forced to increase the RPM of your engine. You actually just LOST speed... lost speed means you have to make up speed later.
If you double clutch you can actually slip the clutch a little bit on the release and effectively "launch" while your already moving.
but be careful, since your already moving and your bringing the engine into it's powerband you will be applying a LOT of torque on the clutch and you can burn up a stock clutch in a hurry.
possibly a faster "jump off the line", even though you are already moving... YES.
Recommended... NO</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm going to have to disagree with the "faster part" If you think of the semantics for a sec.
your in 5th gear, driving 55..
******** pulls next to you in an SRT 4.
You clutch, pick a lower gear and pop the clutch what happens?
You get thrown forward because the momentum of your car is forced to increase the RPM of your engine. You actually just LOST speed... lost speed means you have to make up speed later.
If you double clutch you can actually slip the clutch a little bit on the release and effectively "launch" while your already moving.
but be careful, since your already moving and your bringing the engine into it's powerband you will be applying a LOT of torque on the clutch and you can burn up a stock clutch in a hurry.
I fry gay turkeys
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From: 11426, posts
Re: rev-matching (Hype Vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hype Vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HAHAHAA Thanks everyone for helping me out on rev-matching. ahahaa i also learned about Double-clutching to haha its all good. the more i know the better it will be on my car. Hey how about stage 2 clutches ahahaa what then with rev matching and Double clutching ahaha. too much money to DC ahhaa</TD></TR></TABLE>
are you geeked? wtf is with all the laughing?
are you geeked? wtf is with all the laughing?
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,089
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: rev-matching (Honduh Heffalump)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honduh Heffalump »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
your bogging the engine down because it's in a high gear and the car isn't moving fast enough. This is the worst method of decelerating to a stop. If your not going to downshift your better off putting it in neutral and over heating your brakes, but the proper way is to
1. Clutch
2. Gear select to neutral
3. Let off clutch
4. Increase RPM (rev match)
5. Clutch
6. Selct lower gear
7. Let off clutch
That's the double clutching method, once you do it for a few days it will start to feel very fluid and you will relize that it's truley the least traumatizing to your teg.
Love your teg and it'll love you back, treat it as you would treat a woman. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Unless your synchros are totally shot, all that is totally unnecessary effort and wasted time. The synchros are there for a reason, let 'em do their job.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hotsuma23 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pat, I have a question for you. Is it bad to completely come off the throttle while coasting in gear? I mean what does this do compared to putting in neutral and having the engine idle while coasting to a stop? Sometimes I dont downshift I just leave it in 4th lets say and come slowly off the throttle all the way then when I start braking I just go to neutral. I hope you know what I mean. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I haven't really come to a positive conclusion yet, but I'm pretty it won't hurt anything during normal street driving.
Now if you're track racing at 8K rpm in whatever gear and you suddenly snap the throttle shut, that could cause some problems perhaps if you do it enough times.
Seriously, though, if it really were a big problem, we would all have been taught to drive differently, and there would be various warnings about such things in the owners' manual, etc. But there aren't, so like I said I'm sure it's nothing to worry about during normal street driving.
your bogging the engine down because it's in a high gear and the car isn't moving fast enough. This is the worst method of decelerating to a stop. If your not going to downshift your better off putting it in neutral and over heating your brakes, but the proper way is to
1. Clutch
2. Gear select to neutral
3. Let off clutch
4. Increase RPM (rev match)
5. Clutch
6. Selct lower gear
7. Let off clutch
That's the double clutching method, once you do it for a few days it will start to feel very fluid and you will relize that it's truley the least traumatizing to your teg.
Love your teg and it'll love you back, treat it as you would treat a woman.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Unless your synchros are totally shot, all that is totally unnecessary effort and wasted time. The synchros are there for a reason, let 'em do their job.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hotsuma23 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pat, I have a question for you. Is it bad to completely come off the throttle while coasting in gear? I mean what does this do compared to putting in neutral and having the engine idle while coasting to a stop? Sometimes I dont downshift I just leave it in 4th lets say and come slowly off the throttle all the way then when I start braking I just go to neutral. I hope you know what I mean. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I haven't really come to a positive conclusion yet, but I'm pretty it won't hurt anything during normal street driving.
Now if you're track racing at 8K rpm in whatever gear and you suddenly snap the throttle shut, that could cause some problems perhaps if you do it enough times.
Seriously, though, if it really were a big problem, we would all have been taught to drive differently, and there would be various warnings about such things in the owners' manual, etc. But there aren't, so like I said I'm sure it's nothing to worry about during normal street driving.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,089
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: rev-matching (IntegraLs94Cam)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraLs94Cam »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">going 50 mph and droping it to 2nd gear 
.... will redline your eninge almost</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not at all, it will put it right around 7K rpm or a touch below, right in the middle of the powerband. Just be sure to rev up the engine that high before engaging the clutch in 2nd gear at that speed and there won't be any problems.
.... will redline your eninge almost</TD></TR></TABLE>Not at all, it will put it right around 7K rpm or a touch below, right in the middle of the powerband. Just be sure to rev up the engine that high before engaging the clutch in 2nd gear at that speed and there won't be any problems.
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From: Santa Clarita, CA, usa
Re: rev-matching (Honduh Heffalump)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honduh Heffalump »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm going to have to disagree with the "faster part" If you think of the semantics for a sec.
your in 5th gear, driving 55..
******** pulls next to you in an SRT 4.
You clutch, pick a lower gear and pop the clutch what happens?
You get thrown forward because the momentum of your car is forced to increase the RPM of your engine. You actually just LOST speed... lost speed means you have to make up speed later.
If you double clutch you can actually slip the clutch a little bit on the release and effectively "launch" while your already moving.
but be careful, since your already moving and your bringing the engine into it's powerband you will be applying a LOT of torque on the clutch and you can burn up a stock clutch in a hurry. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I COMPLETELY AGREE... My post was considering that he meant revving the motor to a high RPM before dropping the clutch(or slipping it). I dont think he meant to just drop a gear while the rpms fall and drop the clutch! But you never know...
I'm going to have to disagree with the "faster part" If you think of the semantics for a sec.
your in 5th gear, driving 55..
******** pulls next to you in an SRT 4.
You clutch, pick a lower gear and pop the clutch what happens?
You get thrown forward because the momentum of your car is forced to increase the RPM of your engine. You actually just LOST speed... lost speed means you have to make up speed later.
If you double clutch you can actually slip the clutch a little bit on the release and effectively "launch" while your already moving.
but be careful, since your already moving and your bringing the engine into it's powerband you will be applying a LOT of torque on the clutch and you can burn up a stock clutch in a hurry. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I COMPLETELY AGREE... My post was considering that he meant revving the motor to a high RPM before dropping the clutch(or slipping it). I dont think he meant to just drop a gear while the rpms fall and drop the clutch! But you never know...
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From: 11426, posts
Re: rev-matching (PatrickGSR94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Unless your synchros are totally shot, all that is totally unnecessary effort and wasted time. The synchros are there for a reason, let 'em do their job.
I haven't really come to a positive conclusion yet, but I'm pretty it won't hurt anything during normal street driving.
Now if you're track racing at 8K rpm in whatever gear and you suddenly snap the throttle shut, that could cause some problems perhaps if you do it enough times.
Seriously, though, if it really were a big problem, we would all have been taught to drive differently, and there would be various warnings about such things in the owners' manual, etc. But there aren't, so like I said I'm sure it's nothing to worry about during normal street driving.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is not what syncros are for. Syncro's are only there to make the car drivable by the general population. The reason truck trans missions and a lot of race cars don't have syncros is because the people that drive them know how to double clutch.
Unless your synchros are totally shot, all that is totally unnecessary effort and wasted time. The synchros are there for a reason, let 'em do their job.
I haven't really come to a positive conclusion yet, but I'm pretty it won't hurt anything during normal street driving.
Now if you're track racing at 8K rpm in whatever gear and you suddenly snap the throttle shut, that could cause some problems perhaps if you do it enough times.
Seriously, though, if it really were a big problem, we would all have been taught to drive differently, and there would be various warnings about such things in the owners' manual, etc. But there aren't, so like I said I'm sure it's nothing to worry about during normal street driving.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is not what syncros are for. Syncro's are only there to make the car drivable by the general population. The reason truck trans missions and a lot of race cars don't have syncros is because the people that drive them know how to double clutch.
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: rev-matching (Honduh Heffalump)
Maybe so, but double clutch downshifting is still not necessary on modern synchronized transmissions. A simple rev-match downshift will take less time (more time on the throttle) than going through the whole double-clutching sequence.
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From: 11426, posts
Re: rev-matching (PatrickGSR94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe so, but double clutch downshifting is still not necessary on modern synchronized transmissions. A simple rev-match downshift will take less time (more time on the throttle) than going through the whole double-clutching sequence.</TD></TR></TABLE>
good point.
you should have brought up this factor before
might get you through an apex slightly quicker.
good point.
you should have brought up this factor before might get you through an apex slightly quicker.
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Posts: 30,089
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: rev-matching (95lstegman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95lstegman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dunno, i do my double-clutching while braking coming up to an apex. not on the gas at this time. big feet = </TD></TR></TABLE>
So you actually perform a double-clutch downshift while heel-toe'ing? Damn, that takes skill, but it's also alot more work. You don't even see those Japanese race car drivers doing that, they only blip the throttle as they are braking to bring the revs up as they downshift.
</TD></TR></TABLE>So you actually perform a double-clutch downshift while heel-toe'ing? Damn, that takes skill, but it's also alot more work. You don't even see those Japanese race car drivers doing that, they only blip the throttle as they are braking to bring the revs up as they downshift.
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Just to my understanding is that if you do not do double clutch when you rev match, you will wear out the bearing faster. Race car drivers don't care about it because they always rebuild their tranny.
I always do rev match and heal&toe by double clutching during normal driving. Just need lots of practice. But when I really really need to downshift super fast, I will not let go the clutch during shifting. I know this is not common to most people, as it seems to take lots of work. But once you are used to it, it is an instinct.
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: (RedGSR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedGSR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just to my understanding is that if you do not do double clutch when you rev match, you will wear out the bearing faster. Race car drivers don't care about it because they always rebuild their tranny.
I always do rev match and heal&toe by double clutching during normal driving. Just need lots of practice. But when I really really need to downshift super fast, I will not let go the clutch during shifting. I know this is not common to most people, as it seems to take lots of work. But once you are used to it, it is an instinct.</TD></TR></TABLE>
As I have said several times already, it is not necessary to double-clutch downshift on modern synchronized transmissions, unless your synchros are already shot (from prior abuse, not normal driving and downshifting).
My transmission has 191,000+ miles on it, the past 101,000 put on by me, and I always rev-match when I downshift. It is second nature to me. However, I pretty much never double-clutch downshift. I've done it a few times, just to try it, but I really had to think and make it intentional. And yet my transmission works just fine. It doesn't grind at all, and shifts are just as smooth as could be.
Seriously, nobody with a transmission in good condition should concern themselves with double-clutch downshifting. I don't give 2 turds that it was said in F&F, they didn't even get it right.
Double-clutch downshifting will not make you have m4d tYt3 skrillz y0.
The only time you need to double clutch downshift is if you
a) drive a really old car that doesn't have a synchronized transmission
b) drive a car with a racing transmission with straight-cut gears (dog gears)
c) drive a semi-truck (although I think some of them might even be coming with synchronized transmissions), or
d) drive a car with a transmisison that is on its way out (grinding when going into gear), and you just need to prolong its usable life a bit longer until you can afford to replace or rebuild it.
I always do rev match and heal&toe by double clutching during normal driving. Just need lots of practice. But when I really really need to downshift super fast, I will not let go the clutch during shifting. I know this is not common to most people, as it seems to take lots of work. But once you are used to it, it is an instinct.</TD></TR></TABLE>
As I have said several times already, it is not necessary to double-clutch downshift on modern synchronized transmissions, unless your synchros are already shot (from prior abuse, not normal driving and downshifting).
My transmission has 191,000+ miles on it, the past 101,000 put on by me, and I always rev-match when I downshift. It is second nature to me. However, I pretty much never double-clutch downshift. I've done it a few times, just to try it, but I really had to think and make it intentional. And yet my transmission works just fine. It doesn't grind at all, and shifts are just as smooth as could be.
Seriously, nobody with a transmission in good condition should concern themselves with double-clutch downshifting. I don't give 2 turds that it was said in F&F, they didn't even get it right.
Double-clutch downshifting will not make you have m4d tYt3 skrillz y0.The only time you need to double clutch downshift is if you
a) drive a really old car that doesn't have a synchronized transmission
b) drive a car with a racing transmission with straight-cut gears (dog gears)
c) drive a semi-truck (although I think some of them might even be coming with synchronized transmissions), or
d) drive a car with a transmisison that is on its way out (grinding when going into gear), and you just need to prolong its usable life a bit longer until you can afford to replace or rebuild it.