Yah, it would make sense to start with the bolt on mods, i/h/e, etc. I had just suggested the valves because since you a) are going to need at least one, might as well buy the whole set and b) since everything is apart you might as well do it now, since you need them anyway (again, comparing OEM vs. aftermarket prices). That's why I suggested that.

Bottom line, do what you want/need, and with what your budget is. All good things take time

-- Kevin

 

OK, now going back to my very first conversation with them after they pulled the head, I'm pretty sure they said they were going to replace all of the valves. Or at least, that doing that would be included in their ballpark estimate of $2k. At around $20 per valve, that's $320 in hardware; I'm not counting stuff like guides, seals, springs... I don't know if you would change those with every valve, etc.

I don't know if I have time to deal with getting performance valves either, given that I've already been without the car for a week now. I guess I could see if someplace around here has them.

 

The final verdict is in...

Finally got the car back today. The long and the short of it is, two exhaust valves were damaged, one badly enough to sap all the compression from that cylinder. The other cyl had "very low" compression.

Basically they replaced all the exhaust valves, and did the timing belt and the water pump (asked me first and I said OK). The total cost broke down like this:

1 head set - $177.03 (what is this?)
1 intake gasket - $11.98
8 exhaust valves - $196.00
4 o-rings - $22.80
2 dowl pins - $8.80
4 spark plugs - $12.00
2 brake clean - $10.00
1 oil filter - $7.19
1 gal anti freeze - $9.50
1 timing belt - $53.17
1 water pump - $118.42
3 drive belts - $39.34
4 qts oil - $10.00

machine shop - $375
tow - $150 (hopefully reimbursed by AAA)
labor - $975 (at $75/hr)
tax - $52.57

So there it is. They didn't have a definite reason why the valves got toasted. They said there was a fair amount of carbon buildup in the motor, and it's possible that a piece broke off and held a valve open. Who knows though. I'm not sure if I should be _glad_ that this happened before I start driving to California, or now super-paranoid about other problems. I talked to the guy who did all the work, and he seemed like he knew his stuff pretty well. He said it's good as new, ready to go another 100k miles, etc. We'll see.

 

Reply from someone on a Honda mailing list I'm on:

"I'm sorry....but the FUCKED you on labor and many of the parts. That
job should not have been even close to that price. and its is not
even close to the number of hours they charged you for. Call some
dealers and other shops and ask them to quote you for a full valve
job.

and it was probably the valve hanging that was causing your rich/lean
condition not the 02 sesnor...but its certainly isn't easy on the O2
when this happens...

$22 for 4 O rings?? the upper gasket set includes these and the
dowels don't need to be replaced unless they damaged them...give me a
break.

and what about the intake valves. They didn't replace them? did the
Machine shop resurface the valve seats? for $375 they better have...

It makes me wanna cry..."

 

Ah Owen...

Yah I'll have to agree that some of those prices jump out as a bit high. As for labor, I don't know off the top of my head what the times are for this repair, but I've been able to get a head off a B-series in under a 1/2 hour no prob...

Yah, I know they had to replace the valves, etc, but that's still not a lot of time. My question would be did they charge you additional labor for the timing belt itself? And stuff like that. Because since the head was off, they would of course have to put the timing belt back on. Some shops are honest and include it all as one. Other shops charge you the time for both, even though it was all "done at once" if you get my point.

I know I could add everything up myself, but in case you didn't list certain things, what did you end up paying in all? I think the machine shop amount is high too, though since apperently we don't actually know what all was done, I don't know how high.

At least your car is back to normal and running It may have cost a lot (and maybe too much) but there's not much you can do now. Glad it's pretty much all done now for you. Best of luck with everything else.

-- Kevin

 

I'm pretty sure they did charge labor for the timing belt. I'm not positive, but when I add up timing belt, water pump, and drive belts I get $211.53. There is another section of the bill labeled "accessories" where they wrote "timing belt, water pump, drive belts, $440." So I assume that's the parts plus "labor." I wish I had told them not to change them out, they only had 25k miles on them. Hindsight is 20/20.

This starts to get into another area of discussion now. The money is spent, the car is fixed, and people are offering their opinions about the work/cost. I'm about to move to California; how do I go about finding a good shop there that I can trust? These guys came highly recommended by a lot of people. Maybe they do good work and just overcharge, or maybe they're dishonest to boot. Should I just call up some shops and ask for quotes for some common jobs? Ask them what their labor rate is? Stop by and look around and talk to them? The guys at the place that did all this valve/head work are cool, they explain stuff and seem to know their **** pretty well, so it's easy to trust them.