g0tgot

wich vtec head would be best on a b20....b16 for the high compression? please let me know ....and if anyone has one what price range should i pay for used?

doood

iTrader: (1)

the most complete, cheapest one you can find. in stock form, b16/17 and gsr heads are neck and neck with each other.

g0tgot

soo, with the 84mm bore there will be no issue on a head made for 81mm?

turbob16b

gsr is the better head

VTECth1s

Get an ITR head if you want the "best" vtec head for the b-series motors. B16 or gsr head's are good, just do PnP to raise cr, along with supporting mods, tune, and call it a day.

DB1_559

i heard gsr head's are no good with b20 cause of piston to deck something like that

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbob16b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">gsr is the better head </TD></TR></TABLE>

proof?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DB1_559 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i heard gsr head's are no good with b20 cause of piston to deck something like that </TD></TR></TABLE>

where did you hear this?

turbob16b

If you search for the flow numbers you'll see that they are very close, also the gsr has quelch pads and if you know what that does and the benefits that it gives you then there is your proof.

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbob16b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you search for the flow numbers you'll see that they are very close, also the gsr has quelch pads and if you know what that does and the benefits that it gives you then there is your proof.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's not saying much. b16's have quench pads too, they're just recessed into the head.

turbob16b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that's not saying much. b16's have quench pads too, they're just recessed into the head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I meant to say that the gsr head does not have the quench pad, and if you don't understand the benefit of it then search for it.

The b16 head is just more popular because there are more of them and they are easier to find.

b20powereDA

doood, u seem to catch everything before i get a chance. well at least someone is putting out some good information in this thread. to the OP, in my opinion the best head for a b20/vtec is the cheapest head. whichever u can find at a cheaper price. a gsr head only flows 3 more cfm than a b16 head and if u have to pay more for the gsr then i dont feel that 3 cfm is worth it. also, keep in mind that a gsr will raise ur compression a couple points, ( dont know if this is important to u). ive got a b20/vtec in my DA and ive got a b16 head on it mildly ported, itr valvetrain and cams, and all the bolton goodies and i couldnt be happier with it. im on a street-tune and i couldnt be happier.

DB1_559

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

proof?

where did you hear this?</TD></TR></TABLE>

from my boy he build's ls/vtec, b20 vtec every year for cmi

smileycvc

p<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECth1s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get an ITR head if you want the "best" vtec head for the b-series motors. B16 or gsr head's are good, just do PnP to raise cr, along with supporting mods, tune, and call it a day.</TD></TR></TABLE>

please explain to me how porting a head will raise the compression

St Jimmy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DB1_559 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

from my boy he build's ls/vtec, b20 vtec every year for cmi </TD></TR></TABLE>

your boiiii is wrong. Anyone can build an LSVT but building it right is a whole different story. The gsr head and the b16 head flow almost completly identical. I'm suprised no one brought up this photo yet.



If you want the best head for b20 vtec get a ITR or CTR head. Thats a no brainer everyone should know that... But if you put price into play thats a whole different story.

St Jimmy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

please explain to me how porting a head will raise the compression</TD></TR></TABLE>

he probably meant milling...

g0tgot

wow keep the info coming.....

DB1_559

WELL HELL idk but everybody that said they used gsr heads on b20 blows idk im not a ls-vtec fan

I AM WEASEL

iTrader: (1)

The head. Let's first start off with your choices. There are B16 heads, ITR heads, and GSR heads. IMO, it is never worth buying an ITR head, if you plan on upgrading the springs/retainers/cams anyway. They are amazing heads from the factory, but B16/GSR heads can be had and built for far less. ITR/B16/92-93 GSR heads are built from the same exact casts (PR3), while 94+ GSR heads are built from a different cast (P72) which is why the intake manifold bolt pattern is different (from here on, 92-93 GSR heads will be referred to as B16 heads). ITR heads have a slight hand port job on the intake side from the factory. They also have stiffer dual valve springs, as well as slightly higher lift/longer duration cams and lighter valves. If you want to make more than 200whp with your lsvtec build, you are going to need better cams and springs/retainers anyway...so do you see why it's just not worth the $1000-1200 price tag on used ITR heads? The question you SHOULD ask is, should I get a GSR or B16 head? Tough question. Here's the deal...B16 heads share the same bolt pattern as ITR's for the intake manifold. They are easier to find aftermarket intake manifolds for than GSR heads, as well as being able to bolt on an ITR manifold. However, GSR heads have a distinct advantage over B16/ITR heads. Although having slightly smaller combustion chambers that raise compression is an advantage, it is the reason why it raises compression, that is the REAL advantage. You see, GSR heads employ flat surfaces on the intake and exhaust side of the combustion chamber called "quench" pads. They do raise compression, but the real advantage is this design's ability to ward off detonation, promote better flame travel, and aid in cooling. Beware though, if you plan on running a GSR head with CTR pistons, there is not much room for mistakes. The clearances are tight. I wouldn't personally run that combination w/ stock cast pistons anyway. So keep that in mind. I personally like the combustion chamber design of the GSR head better. But, I also like the ability to be able to run a P73 (ITR) intake manifold on the B16 head. Now that you can see the advantages of both heads, it's really a toss-up. It's your decision, go with the one that fits your needs.

Now, if you have the money, and you want to build a powerful setup, I highly recommend sending your head out to one of the proven head porting shops out there like RLZ, portflow, DonF @ DFE, Headgames, Import Builders, or Alaniz. These are just some of the more widely known, but there are some very quality smaller head porting operations going on in H-T. I've seen some of their work and I'm impressed. I would also go ahead and at the very minimum pick up new OEM valve seals, if not aftermarket. These are equivalent to piston rings for the head, as they seal oil out of the combustion chamber. Don't worry though, Honda valve seals are still fine. Valve springs and retainers are also a mandatory upgrade if you ever plan on making power passed 8k with your lsvtec w/ upgraded cams. Some great companies are Rocket Motorsports, supertech, omni, RLZ, Import Builders, JG, etc. I went ahead and milled the head a little just to freshen the surface. It is by no means necessary. But, keep in mind that if you do it, your cam timing may be slightly affected, as well as your piston to valve clearance and compression ratio. Be careful how much you take off.

If you go and look in the all motor section there is a whole thread on how to build a "reliable" ls/vtec or b20/vtec.

jdm_dc_fan

iTrader: (1)

^^thread /

g0tgot

w00t

St Jimmy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM se-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They also have stiffer dual valve springs, as well as slightly higher lift/longer duration cams and lighter valves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stiffer valve springs and lighter valves.... the perfect combo right?

smileycvc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by St Jimmy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

he probably meant milling...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hope so.