i just got an alignment and my left rear wheel is the only one out of spec. it has +0.1 camber and +0.35 toe (i spun into a dip/ditch when autocrossing). this is as far as they can adjust it.

so, would it be better and what effects will i see if i have either both rear wheels toed in the same direction or towards each other. / / as opposed to / \ ? assuming i will not buy anything to adjust the left rear toe. thanks

 

which is better and why. and if both are equally bad, then why. would like to understand the effects.

 

i say if you align it like / / then it would be worse. Your car would start dog tracking and would look kinda bad. I would rather have the / \ effect and run out some tires rather than dog tracking.

just my .02

 

ok so having them both toe-in / \ would be slightly better but would wear out the tires, correct? thanks for the input.

 

The car will pull one way or the other with only one rear wheel toed in/out. It will understeer in one direction (rear toe in causes understeer). You will wear out one rear tire and will start to wear front tires as well since you will have to add steering angle to keep the car in line.

If you toe both in, your car will understeer in both directions and wear out both tires. You will not have to add steering angle.

If you drive on rain, ice or snow, it may be a little weird. Especially if one wheel is on dry pavement and one wheel is on wet pavement/snow/ice. This is true in either case : both wheels or only one wheel.

Why dont you just see what's bent/broken. Or atleast buy some toe adjusters to adjust the toe past factory specs.

.35'' of toe is SIGNIFICANT. Any more than 1/8inch (.125'') is significant, and usually not recommended for street vehicles.

 

damn, that was a great explanation, thanks. this happened awhile ago and an alignment seemed to fix the problem. i did not think to check out if anything was bent since the alignment ppl didnt say anything about it.

now the problem is arising again because i messed with my suspension. i have been meaning to check out the rear suspension ever since the alignment, and will do so asap. and i have just been looking into the aftermarket toe arm (i never knew about it before) and camber kit, since the camber is +0.1. so i will check to see if anything is messed up and fix it, otherwise i will buy the necessary parts to adjust it. thanks a lot.

 

i checked to see if anything is wrong but cant seem to find anything bent or out of place. the only thing i did find was that the gap between the wheel and trailing arm on the driver side was smaller than the passenger side, i dunno if that tells me anything.

the trailing arm and lower arm do not seem bent or messed up. so, could anyone suggest what other parts to look at/look for. otherwise im just gonna get aftermarket toe arms and camber kit. any help is appreciated.

btw, B serious, the units of the alignment were in degrees, so is 0.35* still significant?

 

anything?

 

the aligment shop shouldve checked the steering angle inclination to check for bent parts. its usually the angle from the upper balljoint through the lower balljoint. (similar to caster in terms of the imaginary line) but veiwed from the front or rear of the car, not the side. if the SAI is out of spec, it can help lead to a bent componant. My chassis professor claims SAI will detect bent componants that to the human eye look uneffected. so with the info determine by the SAI, the eccesive positive toe may be discovered. also, as you asked before. it is far better to have both tires toed in (negative) than one tire + the other - . usually it isnt recomended at all to make rear toe either way. straight in the rear allows it to flow evenly. but in short, toe in on both wheels is better than toe-out on one side and toe-in on the other. hopefully that helps alittle.

edit: i didnt realize this was for the rear. but it would appear to me that you infact have a bent componate that seems alright to eye, but has cocked you wheel in and down. hence the + camber and the toe in.


Modified by my95dc2 at 9:39 PM 3/9/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by my95dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i didnt realize this was for the rear. but it would appear to me that you infact have a bent componate that seems alright to eye, but has cocked you wheel in and down. hence the + camber and the toe in.
Modified by my95dc2 at 9:39 PM 3/9/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you have a guess on what might be bent?

 

perhaps the entire trailing arm itsself, its a large peice so even a slight bend may be impossible to notice. just a though seeing as the measure meants show the tire is leand out top to bottom (positive camber) and the tire toes in, it would suggest the hub is leaning down, and in. and the arm itself would be the only logical thing to cause both of those measurements i would think. also, if you clipped a ditch, all the force of that impact goes through the rim, into the trailing arm with would cuase it to ben laterally.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by my95dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> it is far better to have both tires toed in (negative) than one tire + the other - . </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to clarify this statement, NEGATIVE toe is toe OUT, POSITIVE is toe IN.

To answer the original poster's question about what could be bent, most likely a trailng arm. Unless it was a big hit i doubt it would of gone as far as to bend your subframe or lower control arm, but it would of happened. Check for any chipped paint or wrinkles where they're should be none.

An integra's trailing arm has a natural bend in it which when hit can increase slightly causing a Positive Toe condition when the adjuster is slid all the way out. Because it's already bent slightly it's hard to look at and tell if it's bent more than it should if it's only a minute difference. Go to your local junkyard, pick up a new trailing arm, they are usually only about 75 bucks or so depending on how complete you want it (hub&brakes etc.).

I'm guessing your above quote on what the alignment shop told you is in degree's also right? Not inches.

 

yea thanks justin, i posted that right when i woke up from a nap and was typing alot quickly. but i say trailing arm

 

ok thanks a lot guys. i will check out the trailing arm more carefully and try to find a used one. so do you guys think that it would most likely be the trailing arm rather than the hub itself?

and another thing, if i cannot find a decent used trailing arm, would it be ok for me to just buy the toe arm kit and camber kit to adjust all of this? as in, would it be bad if i dont actually replace the bent component? thanks for all the help

 

bent steel means weakened steel in this situation. I would replace it. You can go to a junkyard and buy a trailing arm from any 94-01 integra or 92-00 civic. It makes it easier if the car comes with the rear disk. Otherwise you have to swap hubs. It's not hard...but if your wheel bearings were affected, it may be an issue.

If your hub was bent, the wheel would wobble as it rotated since the hub is a rotating part.

 

i would say def the trailing arm itself in this instance where you said it was impacted by a slight hit. just replacing other componants to fix a bent part may solve the problem but like mentioned, wont do you well over time expecially if you plan to autocross more. as for the hub, it would likely crack before it bent and compaired to the tailing arm itself would take much more force to do so. and a bad wheel bearing would be a rotating problem, if your alignment is off that much at rest, i would at that point disregard that possibility

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by my95dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would say def the trailing arm itself in this instance where you said it was impacted by a slight hit. just replacing other componants to fix a bent part may solve the problem but like mentioned, wont do you well over time expecially if you plan to autocross more. as for the hub, it would likely crack before it bent and compaired to the tailing arm itself would take much more force to do so. and a bad wheel bearing would be a rotating problem, if your alignment is off that much at rest, i would at that point disregard that possibility</TD></TR></TABLE>

I only said a possibility of a failing wheel bearing because after they've been hit hard enough, it's usually only a matter of time before your car starts sounding like a cement mixer. Also, a bad wheel bearing could affect an alignment reading just like a bent wheel. If the sensor is pointed one way or the other because the wheel is cocked in or out because its bent or because the wheel bearing is loose, the alignment reading can be changed.

Just like having a bad tie rod on the front. if the wheel isn't straight, solid, and fixed in place by the components that hold it at the time of alignment, it wont be right.

 

ok i will try to find a trailing arm and replace it. thanks for all of the help and information.

 

so, i installed a toe arm kit and got an alignment today, under warranty. (the camber kit was a semi-cheapo ebay one that doesnt even have the right bolt hole specs so they dont fit, imma get a refund.) before i got the alignment i decided to lower the car some more and not use a camber kit so that the left rear had a little neg. camber and i installed two washers to the right to make it less neg.

now here are the rear specs: left= -.6* camber and .1* toe, right= -1.1* camber (was -1.9* before lowering .4" and installing two washers) and .1* toe.

now my quick question is, should i install 1 more washer to the right to make it even, since i figure that 1 washer= +.5* camber? or is this perfectly fine? if i add one, i would need to get another alignment, but my warranty is up on thurs. and tomorrow will be my only day to do it. thanks for the help again.

 

Not a big deal there. Barely out of spec for factory, I wouldn't be worried with it like it is. I would be more concerned with rubbing if you keep adding washers.