Yokohama AVID T4 vs AVID Touring
12-01-2007, 11:53 PM
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Yokohama AVID T4 vs AVID Touring
People keep reccomending to me the AVID T4's, but the AVID Tourings have better numbers across the board than the T4's.
Yokohama's site does not have intoformation on the AVID Tourings, so can anyone fill me in on the diff. between the tires?
Yokohama's site does not have intoformation on the AVID Tourings, so can anyone fill me in on the diff. between the tires?
12-02-2007, 06:55 AM
#2
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Re: Yokohama AVID T4 vs AVID Touring (Paprika)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paprika »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People keep reccomending to me the AVID T4's, but the AVID Tourings have better numbers across the board than the T4's.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, they don't. Perhaps you are referring to the user survey results on the Tire Rack website? Those numbers are notoriously unreliable and biased, since only people buying each tire report on how they like it.
The numbers you should be looking at are the ones where the Tire Rack tested both tires, side by side (click here). As the names of the Tire Rack's performance categories imply, the Avid T4 provides better performance on dry pavement, and the Avid Touring provides better comfort and less road noise; performance on wet pavement was similar. So it just depends on which factor(s) are more important to you.
There are all-seasons on the market offering much better performance for not all that much more money - notably the Kumho ASX in 15" and larger sizes, and the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position in 14" sizes - but if you have 13" wheels, you don't have a lot of choices and either of these may be about as good as you can do.
No, they don't. Perhaps you are referring to the user survey results on the Tire Rack website? Those numbers are notoriously unreliable and biased, since only people buying each tire report on how they like it.
The numbers you should be looking at are the ones where the Tire Rack tested both tires, side by side (click here). As the names of the Tire Rack's performance categories imply, the Avid T4 provides better performance on dry pavement, and the Avid Touring provides better comfort and less road noise; performance on wet pavement was similar. So it just depends on which factor(s) are more important to you.
There are all-seasons on the market offering much better performance for not all that much more money - notably the Kumho ASX in 15" and larger sizes, and the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position in 14" sizes - but if you have 13" wheels, you don't have a lot of choices and either of these may be about as good as you can do.
12-02-2007, 04:38 PM
#4
Re: (Paprika)
the avid touring is a better all season tire that the avid t4.
Perhaps you are referring to the user survey results on the Tire Rack website? Those numbers are notoriously unreliable and biased, since only people buying each tire report on how they like it.
I guess i don't understand how those survey's are biased when they are given from people who drive on them. Of course i understand that they don't know everything about a tire and what to expect of what they are buying. But i don't know how you can critisize someone's opinion of what they bought...When they are giving feed back for the next person to read how there experience was with that perticular tire....
Perhaps you are referring to the user survey results on the Tire Rack website? Those numbers are notoriously unreliable and biased, since only people buying each tire report on how they like it.
I guess i don't understand how those survey's are biased when they are given from people who drive on them. Of course i understand that they don't know everything about a tire and what to expect of what they are buying. But i don't know how you can critisize someone's opinion of what they bought...When they are giving feed back for the next person to read how there experience was with that perticular tire....
12-02-2007, 05:47 PM
#5
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Re: (vtecsi00)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecsi00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the avid touring is a better all season tire that the avid t4.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not true. The Avid T4 performs better than the Avid Touring on dry pavement, in side by side testing, with better marks for braking and handling, and quicker lap times.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecsi00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess i don't understand how those survey's are biased when they are given from people who drive on them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
They are biased because the people who buy them is not a random sample, and for this reason is not comparable to the people who buy a different tire.
I'll give you an example to illustrate why this is a problem. In a side-by-side comparison test, the Yokohama ES100 budget performance summer tire beat the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 budget performance summer tire in all 23 out of 23 of the characteristics measured and tested - a clean sweep. Yet the 712 gets better user survey marks. Why? With test results like that, one can assume that the only people who buy the 712 are unsophisticated buyers who are happy with mediocre performance and wouldn't consider buying anything else, whereas the ES100 buyers are probably more sophisticated but also more likely to try other tires as well, and not automatically assume that the tire they're buying is great at everything. THAT is why the user survey results are biased. Sure, they're based on people's opinions. But it's like asking people at a political rally which party or candidate they favor; you're not going to get an unbiased and objective answer. By the same token, you can get an unbiased evaluation of tires when they are tested blindly, side by side, by professional drivers who are driving the various tires back to back without knowing which is which.
Not true. The Avid T4 performs better than the Avid Touring on dry pavement, in side by side testing, with better marks for braking and handling, and quicker lap times.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecsi00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess i don't understand how those survey's are biased when they are given from people who drive on them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
They are biased because the people who buy them is not a random sample, and for this reason is not comparable to the people who buy a different tire.
I'll give you an example to illustrate why this is a problem. In a side-by-side comparison test, the Yokohama ES100 budget performance summer tire beat the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 budget performance summer tire in all 23 out of 23 of the characteristics measured and tested - a clean sweep. Yet the 712 gets better user survey marks. Why? With test results like that, one can assume that the only people who buy the 712 are unsophisticated buyers who are happy with mediocre performance and wouldn't consider buying anything else, whereas the ES100 buyers are probably more sophisticated but also more likely to try other tires as well, and not automatically assume that the tire they're buying is great at everything. THAT is why the user survey results are biased. Sure, they're based on people's opinions. But it's like asking people at a political rally which party or candidate they favor; you're not going to get an unbiased and objective answer. By the same token, you can get an unbiased evaluation of tires when they are tested blindly, side by side, by professional drivers who are driving the various tires back to back without knowing which is which.
12-02-2007, 09:19 PM
#6
Re: (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Not true. The Avid T4 performs better than the Avid Touring on dry pavement, in side by side testing, with better marks for braking and handling, and quicker lap times.
most consumers don't care about lap times, that is my point!!!!!!!! They care about is that tire going to get me home and to work. Is that tire a good all season tire. I have driven on both tires. And for the most part i would drive on the avid touring except for the manufacutures defects that come along with that tire, that most people like yourself don't know about!!!! Sure the avid H4 or T4 are going to handle better with the circumfrential grooves, stiffer bead bundle, and the added nylon belt edges and the extra nylon around the steel belts.
They are biased because the people who buy them is not a random sample, and for this reason is not comparable to the people who buy a different tire.
that is why they have that comparison so that people can read reviews from actual people on the different tires that they may purchase and mae there own decision besides asking the the tire dealer down the road who might not know **** about tire's because he doesn't have the knowledge or the means to get the knowledge about those tires!!!!
I'll give you an example to illustrate why this is a problem. In a side-by-side comparison test, the Yokohama ES100 budget performance summer tire beat the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 budget performance summer tire in all 23 out of 23 of the characteristics measured and tested - a clean sweep. Yet the 712 gets better user survey marks. Why? With test results like that, one can assume that the only people who buy the 712 are unsophisticated buyers who are happy with mediocre performance and wouldn't consider buying anything else, whereas the ES100 buyers are probably more sophisticated but also more likely to try other tires as well, and not automatically assume that the tire they're buying is great at everything. THAT is why the user survey results are biased. Sure, they're based on people's opinions. But it's like asking people at a political rally which party or candidate they favor; you're not going to get an unbiased and objective answer. By the same token, you can get an unbiased evaluation of tires when they are tested blindly, side by side, by professional drivers who are driving the various tires back to back without knowing which is which.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand your point Nsxtasy. It isn't a good comparison, but to a ordinary person who doesn't no anything about tires this is one way for them to get knowledge by reading someone else's opinion. Like they read your opinion on tires as well as everyone else's opinion
Not true. The Avid T4 performs better than the Avid Touring on dry pavement, in side by side testing, with better marks for braking and handling, and quicker lap times.
most consumers don't care about lap times, that is my point!!!!!!!! They care about is that tire going to get me home and to work. Is that tire a good all season tire. I have driven on both tires. And for the most part i would drive on the avid touring except for the manufacutures defects that come along with that tire, that most people like yourself don't know about!!!! Sure the avid H4 or T4 are going to handle better with the circumfrential grooves, stiffer bead bundle, and the added nylon belt edges and the extra nylon around the steel belts.
They are biased because the people who buy them is not a random sample, and for this reason is not comparable to the people who buy a different tire.
that is why they have that comparison so that people can read reviews from actual people on the different tires that they may purchase and mae there own decision besides asking the the tire dealer down the road who might not know **** about tire's because he doesn't have the knowledge or the means to get the knowledge about those tires!!!!
I'll give you an example to illustrate why this is a problem. In a side-by-side comparison test, the Yokohama ES100 budget performance summer tire beat the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 budget performance summer tire in all 23 out of 23 of the characteristics measured and tested - a clean sweep. Yet the 712 gets better user survey marks. Why? With test results like that, one can assume that the only people who buy the 712 are unsophisticated buyers who are happy with mediocre performance and wouldn't consider buying anything else, whereas the ES100 buyers are probably more sophisticated but also more likely to try other tires as well, and not automatically assume that the tire they're buying is great at everything. THAT is why the user survey results are biased. Sure, they're based on people's opinions. But it's like asking people at a political rally which party or candidate they favor; you're not going to get an unbiased and objective answer. By the same token, you can get an unbiased evaluation of tires when they are tested blindly, side by side, by professional drivers who are driving the various tires back to back without knowing which is which.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand your point Nsxtasy. It isn't a good comparison, but to a ordinary person who doesn't no anything about tires this is one way for them to get knowledge by reading someone else's opinion. Like they read your opinion on tires as well as everyone else's opinion
12-03-2007, 07:27 AM
#7
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Re: (vtecsi00)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecsi00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It isn't a good comparison</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, exactly.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecsi00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">to a ordinary person who doesn't no anything about tires this is one way for them to get knowledge by reading someone else's opinion.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But there is another way that provides reliable knowledge that doesn't depend on those biases, and that is from the side-by-side comparison test, in which both tires were tested at the same place and time. When you have two sets of information to use, and one set is very reliable and unbiased and the other set isn't, use the information that's best.
Yes, exactly.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecsi00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">to a ordinary person who doesn't no anything about tires this is one way for them to get knowledge by reading someone else's opinion.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But there is another way that provides reliable knowledge that doesn't depend on those biases, and that is from the side-by-side comparison test, in which both tires were tested at the same place and time. When you have two sets of information to use, and one set is very reliable and unbiased and the other set isn't, use the information that's best.
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