Cynical 1

yes, i googled, and got no answer...

i'm purchasing an innovative LC-1 as well as a DB gauge to display inside the car.

my question is this -

can i use one of the wideband's analog signal wires to send signal to the factory ECU to use as a "narrow" signal?
or, do i have to run the factory 4 wire as well as add a bung to run the wideband separately?

i've never really wanted to do/know this until now. sorry for the "noob" question...

DCFIVER

The signals between narrow and wide band O2's are generated differently. It will not work.

h2.4

yes you can have one of the outputs simulate a 0-1v signal. I've done this to run the "carbon" narrow band a customer had. Look up innovates site on setup of this feature, so you can do away with the stock o2 and just run the wideband in the oem bung while running stock ecu.

DCFIVER

Really? What is the carbon narrow band? Is it a wide band or narrow band? How does the ECU respond to the simulation? What exactly is being simulated? Lambda? Lean? Rich?

ddd4114

Innovate's wideband controllers just output a voltage vs. lambda function that a narrowband oxygen sensor would.

Cynical 1

thanks guys.

yes, i am aware of the difference in output in a narrow vs wideband/lambda o2 sensor...

i checked on innovate's website, and they do explain it in the LC-1 manual.

there is an analog output from the controller that simulates a narrowband sensor output for use with the vehicle ecu.

so, question answered. thanks.

wtf_is_jdm

I recently picked up a LC-1 as well..... interested to see this..

DCFIVER

So it out puts a constant 450mv? How do you tune with it then?

ddd4114

Only at stoich...

You don't tune with the narrowband output, you tune with the wideband output.

Max500

I believe you can program this simulated narrowband to match OEM operation.

mikesrex

yes

PyroProblem

From my understanding, the 0-5v output from the wideband is simply "scaled down" to a 0-1v signal that the ecu can read...

2.5 volts from the wideband = .5 volts into the ecu...

The "carbon" narrowband gauge is Autometer's typical a/f ratio "lightshow" gauge, but in the CARBON series (like the phantom, pro-comp, ultra-lite, etc)

ddd4114

No, the calibration is completely different. A wideband output is linear with lambda, and a narrowband output is very nonlinear.

PyroProblem

Ahhh, OK.. Thank you for the correction

DCFIVER

Actually that picture only represents the O2 sensors values at the extreme ends of the scale. That graph does not represent a typical O2 sensors risetime. That graph also has NOTHING to do with an AF sensor. Your understanding of the AF sensor is incorrect. Neither sensor is linear in relation to Lambda. AF sensors do not read at all like an O2 and utilize a 0-5 volt scale. Pyros answer more accurately represents how the sensor reads and would seem to be a good indicator of how Innovate accomplishes it.

DCFIVER

Yes, that would make sense.

ddd4114

That chart was for a narrowband sensor, not a wideband sensor.

For a wideband sensor, the current pump might be nonlinear with lambda, but Innovate's wideband controller will output a linear function by default. Yes, that isn't the case with all wideband controllers (for example, AEM's).

DCFIVER

Right an O2 sensor, not a Planar sensor. it appeared that you were saying the graph represented a Planar sensor.
I did not know you were specifically speaking about Innovates AF sensor. I thought you were inferring that all AF sensors behave in that fashion. I understand then.

DEIVIONCRX

Yes your LC-1 has 2 output wires, one is Simulated narrowband so you can run normal open/closed loop operation on your ecu, and the other is Wideband for tuning.

Cynical 1

yes, thanks to all that had ideas.

LC-1 is installed and properly functioning as the "main" o2 for the car via the output 1 wire.

car actualy runs better with the wideband acting as the o2 sensor, and my NGK sensor wasn't that old...

you will have to install a "heater" for the cel to turn off - i used a 10w 10 ohm resistor and an old o2 plug.