ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

NO complaints with the full Hardrace kit. I used to daily my car and it was maybe just a tad rougher on the street. I've put probably over 30k on the bushings in the last 5 years and no issues. Rear alignment is always in check and stopped all my weird tire wear. It's just a big PITA to replace everything. Luckily I had a buddy that did it all for free

testify

The hardened rubber bushings like HardRace sells are fine as long as you are running REALLY high spring rates and have almost no suspension travel.

Otherwise they will cause binding unlike poly bushings that utilize a center sleeve that can rotate freely.

hondur

iTrader: (1)

Tightening the bolts on the bushings with blocks under the wheels isn't at all difficult. Maybe if you're used to standing under a lift, but if your'e used to jack stands it's not a biggie whatsoever.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

rubber bushings bind as the suspension moves....even if they are clocked. You're clocking them to static ride height...not any dynamic heights. So if you hit a bump, the bushing has to move.

But...they're designed for this...and will outlast polyurethane junk. While there are poly bushings that can stand up to use...they're very expensive. Sphericals have obvious advantages and disadvantages.

I think rubber and reinforced rubber is the most advantageous material for a street car, hands down, considering cost, longevity, and ride comfort.

Cheap polyurethane works on budget build shitbox sardine can race car applications. You'll need to maintain and replace them fairly often. And your car will absolutely ride like a skateboard. However...in a few positions (UCA to chassis, for example), even the cheap stuff works well.

BOOTED sphericals work great...but they need to be engineered in. So open your wallet, player. And in most positions, they do add harshness. But you get the least amount of bind..and thus the least amount of wheel deflection and bumpsteer, etc.

FlewByU352

Idk what brand is the cheap ones but my Energy Suspension were cheap cost wise. Maintenance? I've greased my bushings once at install in 2010 and haven't touched them since and haven't had a need to. ES polyurethane is also very pliable and nothing like a skateboard wheel. If the car rides like **** blame your shock setup and suspension tuning.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I have greased my perfectly good rubber bushings 0 times in 16 years. I street and track drive it. Its comfortable, pretty quick, and I probably won't need bushings for a few more years.

**not including the front compliance bushing. Those inherently wear out no matter what is used...unless its bearings. But...if we are making a comparison, rubber will exponentially outlast solid/plain poly in this position. -- this is a pivoting compliance bushing on a S2000. The civic front compliance bushing is a fairly low wear item.

In comparison...cheap polyurethane (Energy/prothane) as a lot of disadvantages. The advantage is cost.

Is your car street driven? how many miles on the bushings?

Note that I said:

-for street and track driving (meaning combined useage), rubber has the most advantages.

-Poly works fine on a budget race car or similar application where you don't care much about longevity or refinement. If it wasn't a budget race car...you'd use bearings.

Factory performance cars come with either rubber or metal bushings. Why wouldn't manufacturers use poly? Its cetainly cheaper.

You can't make a recommendation for cheap poly and say that the disadvantages that I've mentioned do not exist. That would be misleading.

I'm not really saying anything extreme. Use poly if you like it. Even if the car is your daily. Its not my car. I'm not anyone's real dad...nobody has to listen to me. But its downsides do exist.

FlewByU352

Yes and approximately 45,000 miles. The car has even been rallied off-road jumped with all 4's off the ground with limestone and sand grit, still doing just fine. I'm not here to say polyurethane is the end all, but I'm tired of people saying it's junk when clearly it has stood the test at least IMO. I've even pressed the same bushings in an out of arms that have bent over the years.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

45K miles isn't what I'd call a lot of miles...or what I'd call daily driven. And the fact that its being rally crossed tells me it wasn't built as a daily driver...or a car where refinement was even on the list.

There are cars with 200K on the stock rubber bushings that have seen all sorts of things.

I'm not trying to hound you. I'm saying that there is a significant increase in NVH that you may just not care about with your particular car.

My experience with poly was negative. The NVH wasn't worth the added response. My car wasn't any faster, and I would never use them on a street driven car or daily driver (unless they were on the UCA or toe arm).

If I had a car that I was track prepping, which needed bushings, and was a 90% (or more) track time build, or that I was going to rally, and I didn't want to spend money...I'd buy poly.

Otherwise, I'd buy quality rubbers. :D

98civdx

I'm glad that you had a positive experience with poly, for me it was the opposite. I had them in the front upper/lower, rear lower and TA bushings.
I cleaned/lubed them at least twice a year. Car was a DD clean before/after winter. That is one thing I didn't like them. Not to mention that ES prelube is nasty **** when it gets in the bolts threads.
Rear lowers were shot in less than 10k miles. The TA bushings were removed and replaced with rubber in a few months. the car behaved terribly with them in. Extremely snappy, and unpredictable
The front bushings were showing heavy wear in less then 3 years. not sure on the mileage but it couldn't have been over 30k

these are just my experiences and opinions. I've said it before, some love poly some hate it.

Granted I haven't driven the car since the hard rubber bushing replacement, I can say that to this point I do no regret it.

testify

So a handful of people don't like poly.

The rest of us have used it for years with nothing but success.

One thing I keep reading, that makes zero sense, is that rubber outlasts poly. That's nonsense. Rubber deteriorates and fatigues at an exponentially faster rate than poly.

And you can have an incredibly smooth ride with sphericals. I autocross with someone who was a TA driver for AMS about 10 years ago. The Evo that AMS built for him was Heim jointed at evey pickup and link in the suspension. The thing rode smooth as butter.

Heim Bearings is a great company by the way. I grew up about a block from them.

Be careful taking the word of people that are nothing but armchair quarterbacks with little to no real world experience.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Sneaking in that deep, deep burn.

98civdx

I'd love to see what a poly bushing looks like after 260k....

Vic08

Tons of good information, I thank all of you for your input. After long consideration and to keep things uniform, I decided to go with Hardrace. Like I said before it's not a race purpose only car but will also be driven on the streets and where I live in the canyons ;-)
As for front sway bar I completely respect your opinions as far as removing the front sway bar for auto-x or going with something smaller than 26mm, however I do trust the engineers a bit more when they designed the CTR it came with 26mm front and 22mm rear. Mine will be similar 26mm OEM CTR Front and 24mm ASR rear with sub-frame reinforcement brace. I'm in the process of refurbishing the CTR LCAs and all the brackets and will post pics once completed :-)
Thanks again for all the input.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Clock those rubber bushings or you'll tear them.

For a hatchback, 26/24mm sway bars are probably a good combination if you're pairing it with the right spring rates.

Tein SA's are very soft. So definitely don't lower the car a whole bunch. They're great daily driver coilovers. But...after driving my DD on them for 4yrs, I'm not sure they'd work too well at a track. Then again, nothing in that price range works that well for track and street use.

testify

Does your car have a proper LSD? The CTR has a proper LSD. If the CTR didn't have a proper LSD, the engineers wouldn't put a 26mm sway bar on the drive wheels.