jdmdohcek98

iTrader: (1)

The Sub Frame Rigid Collar kit is simple to fit and low cost, Rigid Collars ease into position without affecting the basic geometry of the body.

The way the Rigid Collar works is simple. Bolt holes through the chassis panel and sub frame are too big as they were designed for ease of production in the factory. When the car leaves the factory, everything is new and tight and the chassis hardly moves. After a while, the bolts become slightly looser and movement between the panels begins. This is why an older vehicle fitted with new bushes, Shocks and springs, still doesn't behave like a new car.

The Rigid Collar is an aluminium washer (as per photo) with a square outside Taper to increase adhesion on the Thinner flange portion in the middle. This fits between the moving panels and with a properly sized bolt (and Bolt Hole as part of the Rigid Collar) is crushed into place when tightened, joining the two panels and stopping movement forever.

http://www.aj-racing.com/shop/produc...cat=372&page=2

What do you guys think?

jdmdohcek98

iTrader: (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWyUD...layer_embedded

GSRCRXsi

thats a big price for a few little bits of aluminum...

johnjw

Fairly skeptical but.....

I would not think that the subframe moves but only in extreme circumstances. I've always used the supplied hole next to where the bolt goes to align the subframe to body. So..............

I approve this message only because they use a crushable aluminum.

But once crushed and say the subframe did move you would end up with dents sorta like old style poly bushings. Thus becoming loose.

edit; holy!!!! $248!!! whoa... I'd rather weld and grind lol

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

You can weld the whole car and stiffen it for less than 248.00 of welding wire.
The vid didnt show me that great of a difference when you look at the parralell lines upper and lower in the travel.
Its a nice thing if want to spend the money.
Why did they use a prius though?

jdmdohcek98

iTrader: (1)

I was just browsing throuh aj-racing and saw this and thought it was interesting. I agree its expensive but I think welding the subframe wouldnt be an option. If you welded it to the car it would be permenant and I dont like the idea of that. If they actually work or not or if its actually significant I leave that up to you h-t engineers. Just wanted to share this since I couldnt find any post on this.

jdmdohcek98

iTrader: (1)

any other opinions on this?

KIWI

Typical Spoon (I won't say Rip off) Creative marketing might be more PC - The only people I know of that can take a Honda part and put it in a Spoon box and suddenly its worth twice as much!
Novel idea, might even do what they say it will? there are still heaps of Spooners out there that will see these as a recomendation from God! Cheap by Spoons standards.

Kiwi

apalmucci

Interesting thread - I just started one a couple of days ago on OzHonda about the same topic. Here are some pics below from a Civic FD3 (not a Prius from Spoon promo video, which I thought might be exaggerating the results) - check these out:

In photo 2 and 3 you can clearly see a fairly large gap where the bolt connects the subframe to the chassis and in photo 4 with the rigid collars installed. Pretty clear evidence it does tighten things up and no matter how good your coilovers/suspension are, without this there is always going to be flex.

What the end result is on the road for an EK1 I'm not sure... but you would make the assumption it could only make the geometry of the car better...


Photo. 1



Photo. 2



Photo. 3



Photo.4

Source of photos: http://spoon-mechanic.seesaa.net/upl...8A3B1.jpg.html


Would be good to hear any more experiences/opinions guys... and excluding talking about price (we all know you pay for Spoon), if just the mod in itself would make an improvement to the car

solo-x

Properly torqued, the subframe bolts will keep the subframe from moving. When the subframe does move, it is a very audible thunk. It's a gimmick. Waste of money.

VTECIntegra9

Bingo. Just retorque your subframe bolts every 10k or so (at least check for loose ones, and snug them up)... It's a common problem on my mazda and not because there are clearance in bolted holes to two stamped pieces of metal (there needs to be!)...because the clamped joint just needs the proper force on it!

apalmucci

thanks for the advice

beat

iTrader: (1)

Anyone tried this on the dc2?
Is it strictly a marketing item or is t it actually functional?
Of its functional, I might consider it as I can get it locally for around $180 usd.

Billy Elliot

This is correct. Like was mentioned in the hub-centric wheels thread. When your lugs are torqued right, the static friction force of the rotor to wheel is in the order of magnitude of 30,000+ lbs of force.

Just need to make sure when removing/installing a subframe that it is square and not off center where you would get movement (similar to how you should do the same with wheel lugs).

But yeah, just keep them torqued and you won't have a problem.

Wai

I think this collar is more for centering the pieces than eliminating "movement" between the pieces. Oversized bolt holes are everywhere in the construction field, and in many occasions the workers had to crank the steel beams/columns in place with chains due to the accumulated difference in the tolerance. It, in turns, created internal stresses in the members.

I like the idea of the collar, but not the price.

chrisb

Anyone who buys this does not understand how a properly torqued bolt works. Please don't anyone here be stupid enough to buy this crap.

Kamuics

agree, you can tighten a bolt as tight as you want but if its not centered...

KIWI

Holy Crap! So we do actually agree on something? Amazing!

Kiwi

Paul 631

Why would it matter if the subframe/bolt is centered, as long as the subframe isn't shifting under loads; wouldn't any misalignment be taken care of by an 4-wheel alignment?...

chrisb

@KIWI - And people say there aren't miracles anymore!

You are 100% right Paul. It is irrelevant how centered in the hole the bolt is. There are manufacturing tolerances in everything and oversized holes are used in manufacturing for good reason. What if you get rid of all slop and get all the bolts exactly on center but you find out the subframe is no longer perpendicular to the car? That is a likely possibility. What matters is that the car tracks straight. And the build quality of a Honda is a whole lot better than the build quality of a Miata. I have crewed working on Miatas and we had to religiously torque subframe bolts. I don't think I ever torqued my subframe bolts in the 10 years I have tracked my Integra until I worked on those Miatas.

What Wai is referring to is what we call "stacking error" in machining. Here is a scenario. I am running bearing spacers on a CNC lathe. I center drill the AL bar, then I drill a hole with a really long drill, ream the hole to size, turn the OD of the spacer and then part it off. Cool. The hole will be in the center with .001" in all likelihood. But because I am lazy I am not going to center drill the second spacer. I just drill into the shallow hole left when I drilled last time and do all the other operations. Within a very small number spacers I am drilling WAAAAYYYY off center. In fact, if my drill is long/flexible enough I will eventually break it as the drill migrates further and further off center. Oh and all the parts I made except the first couple are junk as the holes are too far off center. That is stacking error. What Wai describes in the construction industry is stacking error. That is not an issue in this case.

But if you have too much money then feel free to spend it. Might as well buy some z-max while you are at it... but pour a little out first.

beat

iTrader: (1)

Those who are saying its not need and saying how a normal bolt torqued correctly will do the job, it makes sense to me.

But a couple of my friends have installed it on a DC2, EK9 and FD2. They all seem to feel a difference. How do you explain that they felt a difference? Maybe their bolts werent torqued corrently to begin with?

SMHero

I know if I spent $250 on aluminum washers I'd be sure to tell my friends I felt a difference.

VTECIntegra9

I feel the same difference when I put a new sticker on my car... feels faster.

0Banggood

Well, check this racing car sticker out

FlewByU352

I will be installing the kit on my EK within the next month or so. Stay tuned for pictures and results. Also if you don't like the price I have an alternative for you for half the price!