SJR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greg Amy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's not a religion, it's a truck; just enjoy it! - GA</TD></TR></TABLE>

Blasphemy! I say stake him and light the fire! I agree though, I prefer diesel, so that's what I got. And if I ever want to get an enclosed trailer, no problem. and if I want to rent a vacation trailer to take the family, no problem. and if I want to push that a-hole off the road while he's on his cell phone and reading a map, er, no problem - until the cops show up...

mstewar

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Blasphemy! I say stake him and light the fire! I agree though, I prefer diesel, so that's what I got. And if I ever want to get an enclosed trailer, no problem. and if I want to rent a vacation trailer to take the family, no problem. and if I want to push that a-hole off the road while he's on his cell phone and reading a map, er, no problem - until the cops show up...</TD></TR></TABLE>

at least in the diesel you could theoretically lead them on a longer police chase with the better MPG..

Track rat

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmmm. Lets say I tow to Summit Pt. 700 mile round trip, 15 mpg (mountains), =47 gallons used. At $2.59/gallon that's $122 for fuel. Big Block gasser does the same trip at 8mpg, usung 87.5 gallons. At $2.39/gallon that's $209 for fuel. The $87 difference should cover most of my hotel for the weekend (I said most).</TD></TR></TABLE>

15 - 16mpg towing with your PSD... that must be a relatively light open trailer?

If so, I think your gasser mileage @ 8 mpg is a little low. I pull 4,700+ lbs at 65 - 70 mph and get 12.5 - 13 mpg with a 5.4 gas Expy.

I agree 100% that diesel is worth it.... if you want one or if you pull 7,000lbs+. Justifying it based on the sheer economics of towing 6,000 lbs, 10 weekends a year just doesn't add up!

Also, where's the best place to get one of those Banks tranny controller thingys and what should I expect to pay for one?

Greg Amy

iTrader: (1)

Actually, to be fair Track Rat, 8mpg is just about what I got towing from CT to Road Atlanta this past November in my '99 E-350 with the 6.8L V10 pulling about 7500 pounds in a very boxy and wide enclosed trailer (I get 14 pulling nothing with the extended family inside). Granted, I've got a 3.73LS final drive, and the V10s really like to rev higher than that (kept dropping in and out of O/D while towing). It towed best at about 80-85, but that's a bit fast for my likin'. I'm changing it to a 4.30 and expect to see a significant increase in drivability and fuel economy at more-reasonable highway speeds.

As for the Banks TransCommand, you can always go to Banks (www.bankspower.com) or get the part number and do a Google search. However, I've bought three of them, all of them at a discount off eBay... - GA

MaddMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">15 - 16mpg towing with your PSD... that must be a relatively light open trailer?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not really, about 6000# total with car and associated trackcrap.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I pull 4,700+ lbs at 65 - 70 mph and get 12.5 - 13 mpg with a 5.4 gas Expy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's a 5.4, not the V10. Last time I towed with gas, I got 11mpg from Raleigh to Savannah and back (I-95 is F-L-A-T!) with a 5.0L F150. Not terrible, but with that 18 gallon tank I had to stop twice on a 4 hour trip!!!


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would take a LOT of fuel savings to cover that delta.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll let you know. I plan to find out. With some mods (program, exhaust, intake) I should scare the hell out of 20mpg while towing.

BTW, if I get the valve body stuff, is the Transcommand still needed?

preparedcivic

Jumping in way late on the thread, but I wrestled with the gas or diesel dilemna when I bought the 2500HD in July '04. The height of the diesel bling period, and I even had trouble finding new Duramax Crew Cab 4x4 shortboxes on the ground. Consequently, the few that were available were pricey. I remember talking price with one dealer that had the exact truck I was looking for, and attempted to jerk me around on a cost that effectively was $1000 over sticker. WTF? I walked out.

That brought me back to gas, and my wife who would be driving the beast every day not wanting to hear clack-clack-clack. Yes they are quieter than they used to be, but I'd rather listen to a gas motor at 4000rpm everytime over a diesel.

Given what I paid for my gas truck, adding in the benefit of the 0% financing I got, I'm saving $8000-9000, minimum, and that assumes that I could have actually found a reasonable deal then on a Dmax. Assuming I keep this truck for 5 years until it is paid off, is it going to be worth that much less then?

Diesel has been more than gas for all but the first 3 or 4 months I owned the truck. The mileage difference between my 6.0 gas motor and a Dmax has turned out to be about 2-3 mpg in all conditions, comparing mileage with friends having identical trucks pulling 20'-24' encloseds of similar weight. This truck gets between 9 and 10 mpg at a 15,000lb gcw (truck at 7k, trailer at 8k), at 70-75.

If I was towing bigger or heavier, my tune might be different, but this work A-OK for me.

preparedcivic

Oh, one more thing, that 5R100 tranny, is really just an update with improved electronic controls and bits and pieces over the 4R100. They get the additional gear by engaging the overdrive on first or second, I forget which.

While I only have 4 gears in my 4L80E, it is a pretty stout piece and once you wind through that 2.48 first gear, the gaps to 2, then 3 and 4 are pretty tight, with ratios not much different than 2-5 in the Allison.

johng

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, if I get the valve body stuff, is the Transcommand still needed?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope.

This is your new valve body...
http://jellybeanracing.com/John/Truck/vbC01008.JPG

..and this is the mess you'll make replacing it.
http://jellybeanracing.com/John/Truck/vbC01011.JPG
http://jellybeanracing.com/John/Truck/vbC01014.JPG

MaddMatt

OK, last thing I swear. Can that V10 Triton run on used vegetable oil?

At least we all agree that when it comes to tow vehicles, bigger is most certainly always better...

maxQ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nope.

This is your new valve body...
http://jellybeanracing.com/John/Truck/vbC01008.JPG</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry... was there supposed to be something for a truck in that picture?

If MaddMatt ends up with a body like that, I'm going to have to ask him(?) for more rides.

Greg Amy

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is your new valve body...
http://jellybeanracing.com/John/Truck/vbC01008.JPG</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh, what valve body? I don't see one...

Greg Amy

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can that V10 Triton run on used vegetable oil?</TD></TR></TABLE>

'Course not! Can the Powerstroke run on 86 octane, $2.29 (as of today) toad-**** gasoline, the kinda stuff you hesistate to put in your lawnmower? Well, I can *tow* with that scheiss!

As to veggie oil, I ran used filtered Friendly's Restaurant oil in my Rabbit TurboDiesel. Tried it in the '93 truck, too. Works great, runs smoother, runs quieter, smells better, felt li eit had more torque (the cetane rating is higher). It was great in the Rabbit, 'cause all I had to do was filter about 10-12 gallons every two weeks, but in the truck it was impractical: in order to use it in the truck I had to filter tens of gallons per trip and transport it to the events, it just didn't make any sense. Between hauling it home, settling, it, filtering it, and transporting it, the effort was far more than I was willing to do. (An aside: I had created a filtering system where I'd pour it into one 5-gallon drum, let it settle a few days, then use an electrical pump to make multiple passes through used oil filters to another 5-gallon drum. Again, PITA, messy - especially the settlement cleanup - and probably not cost-effective, but it was a fun experiment.)

Theoretically speaking, I could have tried home heating oil out of the tank in my basement (that I was theoretically paying about 50 cents less per gallon for) and theoretically I could have experienced nothing different than autodiesel (which, theoretically speaking, is not surprising given it's the same stuff), but (again, theoretically) it would have been a PITA to haul multiple 5-gallon cans from the basement to the driveway for each fillup, all while watching for the nosy neighbors. Sometimes, it's just not worth the hassle...not to mention, illegal... - GA

MaddMatt

this is fun

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$2.29 (as of today) </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just across the boarder in SC this morning diesel #2 was only $2.30. That's funny, I said "only $2.30...."

I am seriously considering the used veggie oil route. Would a 50/50 mix of veggie and #2 be enough to not screw up the injectors? I need to research some more. $1.20/gallon on average would kick ***.

I will say that B20 ran WAAAAY better in the 7.3L IDI than #2. Doesn't seem to make much difference in the 'stroke though.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If MaddMatt ends up with a body like that, I'm going to have to ask him(?) for more rides.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's funny right there....




Modified by MaddMatt at 6:35 AM 1/12/2006

Greg Amy

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just across the boarder in SC this morning diesel #2 was only $2.30.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, but to be fair, how much is the toad-**** gasoline down there? Autodiesel is about $2.80-ish up here (don't know for sure, I don't play close attention any more...)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would a 50/50 mix of veggie and #2 be enough to not screw up the injectors?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Veggie oil is fine in any ratio. The thing that screws up the injectors (and pump and lines) is not the oil itself, it's the impurities within it. In any used veggie oil there's fine particles of french fries, onion rings, whatever, and it's these fine particles that collect and clog the system. The problem is worse in the PSDs because of the tighter tolerances.

Also, keep in mind that veggie oil starts congealing around room temperature...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I need to research some more. $1.20/gallon on average would kick ***.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, but a high "hassle factor." Time versus money...

TeamSlowdotOrg

BTW:

My gas truck gets 13 mpg towing at 75 mph with a 5000 pound trailer and an additional 1000 or so pounds of payload.

A 20' tagalong enclosed with about 6500 pounds of total weight, in a really hilly area, with the cruise set at 70mph (never lost more than 3mph up some real grades in southwest MO) netted 9.5 mpg.

One thing to keep in mind: A lot of the diesel trucks I see out there in HT-land are 4wd, megasuperdupercab, everything on it models. I bet a 2wd diesel would compare even more favorably on mileage. Still not worth the additional money for my application, but something to think about. An equivalent 4wd, quad cab hemi 2500 gets about 2mpg less on average than my 2wd, regular cab long bed 2500.

MaddMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep, but to be fair, how much is the toad-**** gasoline down there?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No toad-**** around here, 87 octane is as cheap as it gets. Filled up the daily driver SE-R for $2.16/per this morning....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, keep in mind that veggie oil starts congealing around room temperature...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, that's why I would consider mixing it. At least in the summer months, it shouldn't be a problem.

bluegsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I paid a little more for a diesel SUV but dammit I *like* it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerBowie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ding ding ding!

That is what I kept coming back to in my search for a truck. I could have easily saved $5k+ by going with a gasser, and frankly for my purposes could probably have gotten by "OK" with a '95 or so F150. What kept coming up was that <U>I didn't WANT to just get by</U>, I wanted to jump in, get out onto the interstate, set the cruise at around 70, and not have to worry my little head about it until I got to the track.

I determined that for ME it is worth at least $5k for that piece of mind not having to look at every hill and decide if it can make it up without downshifting, not having to measure tongue weight to the pound, not worrying if that extra person coming with us is going to mean we can't make it up that last big hill, etc.

Therefore, PSD it is for me. With a 6 speed, thanks. (I can learn from other's lessons occasionally)

Besides, there is nothing cooler (in towing) than coming up on that big hill, hearing the turbo spool up and watching the speedo just sit right dead pegged on 70 without ever a waver.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What they said.

I have the new TorqShift tranny in mine. It's awesome. Going down the hills on the way to Atlanta a year+ ago, I didn't even have to touch my brakes on the long hills. The tranny downshifted and the engine did the braking work for me.

Granted, this is only towing about 5,000 of open trailer/tires/crap, but I still found it pretty darn impressive. It handles the towing duties much better than the 1/2 ton Dodge that preceeded it. (Although I have to admit the 5.9 gasser in that Dodge was a bit more fun around town.... )

Oh yeah - with a 44-gallon tank, the Ex can certainly go farther - even towing at its limits - than most humans. (Especially if a woman is involved.....)

Jarrod
'03 Excursion Eddie Bauer 4x4 PSD

Maxi

I towed during the summer with my '03 Tundra (open trailer and EG hatchback, combined weight of around 4500-5000 lbs) and got surprisingly good gas mileage -- about 15-16mpg depending on how fast I was cruising. That's pretty darn good out of a small gas V8, I think. It's worth noting that it's fairly flat here in southern Ontario, so the towing conditions in terms of fuel economy are quite good. I'll miss that truck but sold it because I decided I'd prefer to have less money tied up in a tow vehicle.

So now I'm thinking I'll pick up a '97-99 GMC 2500 cargo van. I like the idea of the larger/taller cargo capacity and the price on these (at least in my neck of the woods) is surprisingly cheap for the year and mileage. Anyone have any good/bad experiences with these vans and any suggestions on what to look for when buying?