mark4germantank

Hello all i have a 97 prelude that requires an engine harness along with a few things. it has been sitting for about 2 years. Now i am about to get a new job soon and am in need of another daily. Since i kinda turn my normal daily into a unfriendly high hp dd thief magnet.

anyways after redoing my whole setup on my integra i have some left over parts from My build.
Hondata s300 v2 on ecu
Jumper harness
300hp intercooler and piping
I own a h series log style cast iron manifold
Have a running ebay t3/t4 50 trim and a old turbonetic t3/t4 50 trim turbo with 0 shaft play that needs new seals was on a different H22
Oil line
Tial 38mm wastegate
Synapes blow off valve
Small catch can
I have these oem parts that I was suppose to put on.
H22a4 head gasket
H22a4 oil pump
H22a4 water pump
H22a4 timing belt

I know I need some stuff but not much.

So anyways I dont need or want a lot of boost for this car since it's my daily. I just need boost in my life whenever I drive especially if its far. Can I do 190hp to 220hp range safely with good tune stock everything or is that too high?

Don Jefe

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/tips-basics-building-your-motor-fi-having-last-783372/

This was in the FAQs sticky up top. Should be a good jumping off point.

Good luck.

Sparksman

You will need bigger injectors over oem, at least between 550cc-1000cc. You can run 250whp reliably if set up right and a good tune. With forged rods, rings, and a few other goodies you can push close to 300whp with FRM cyclinders, but 300whp is about the max id push a non-sleeved bottom end.

gmcuajo1

New to prelude & h22. Have an h22a and have some questions.

Does all h22 have frm cylinders? Does the h22a have closed deck? How much to pay to sleeve the block? How far can go with bore? Just want to go with .5 overbore, but how much? If the frm just hold 300whp, stock pistons and rods are ok?

Thanks for helping me with newbe questions.

mark4germantank

I dont want to buy injectors, forge rods and stuff I have h22a4 with the frm open deck walls which would require sleeving. I have a fun 480hp integra hence why I am not looking to make anything big i know the prelude 290s can flow up to 310 with higher pressure.

I was just wondering if i can get 200-220hp. I want it quicker than h22a4 with i/h/e cams and pulley (cams and pulley sold back to stock).

I dont want to pay for any big major part except tune.....i should say my gf doesnt let me ha ha ha ha ha.

Sparksman

yes, yes and no, call to get quotes, pistons are, not the rods.


Injectors and fuel pump I would highly suggest replacing. To a point higher pressure will give slightly more, but PSI does not equal volume. Going too high actually restricts volume and would case to run more lean then not messing with it to begin with. Ive heard of people squishing the FPR for a few more psi. Thats sketchy because you dont know what the new psi is, and if its too high. It would be worth it buying a aftermarket one.

mark4germantank

Actually forgot have an aftermarket fpr and walbro 255 on car as well as air fuel, psi and oil temp gauge i assume car was boosted long ago before previous owner that i bought from cuz he drove it all motor for a year or 2. I seen 290cc injector rated at 200hp to 230hp. I seen integras with 240cc at 95% duty at 210hp. If i can only get 200 hp so be it it will still be faster than stock. Just want to make sure it can or has been done. I know b18s are smaller displacement and take some less fuel. I know if i got bigger injectors id raise hp so im capping myself with limiting injectors and not allowed to buy much.

Sparksman

You dont want to go over about 80% cycle duty on injectors. I believe around 200whp+ you will be close to exceeding that. Pushing parts to their max is a dumb idea... You may save a few hundo out of pocket now, but compared to having to buy/rebuild the engine its super cheap. If they are old injectors they all may not flow like they once did, or get stuck open.

mark4germantank

Ok so got to find some cheap rsx s 310cc, rdx or mdx (I forget) 410cc or dsm 450 injectors then to be on the safe side on fuel then. Then I should be good for 200hp minimum.
Thanks sparkman

Sparksman

I have RDX injectors, them and the RSX are K series injectors though. I had to buy a K2H fuel rail and manifold adapters to run them. Think it cost me like $200 for the set up, not counting injectors or pigtails. Prob run you around $300+/- for everything to be running K series injectors too.

If you do, denso has two cc ratings for RDX. 410cc at stock PSI, and they are also rated at 550cc's at 70psi below 80% cycle duty. They spray in a conical pattern "like a spritzer bottle" instead of a flat wide pattern. They burn more efficiently then other same size injectors. Which gives better fuel economy and better performance.

mark4germantank

Thanks that is very good info that I didnt know about the k injectors. I have a $700 to $750 budget which $450 is going to tune so I have $300-$350 to work with for oil lines and misc since I own most of the stuff and not ditching tune even at such a low hp level. I'll see if I can find some used rc or dsm injectors

gmcuajo1

Going back.

How much power will hold the H22A (closed deck) and the h22a4 (open deck)? Just the block.

mark4germantank

My friend with h22a closed deck is running 389hp high 200 low 300tq 1 year. I only seen 280ish on stock h22a4 and usually something gives out. Ive seen higher but I dont know long they lasted. E85 or water meth help tremendously in helping with high hp.

mark4germantank

Again tune is key in how long it can last along with health of motor

Sparksman

whats "high 200 low 300tq" mean?

No one said you couldnt run more power on a stock block, but it severely shortens the life span of the engine. Around 300whp internals should be replaced with forged to maintain reliability.

There is not a big difference between open and closed deck blocks. Its just the coolant passages are different, which makes open deck better at cooling. The internals are all exactly the same. You can buy a block guard which "eliminates" the issue with open decks i suppose. Closed decks have their issues too, so neither is better then the other.

Running close to 400whp on stock rods and pistons is sketchy as hell... Something is going to go boom soon enough.

I wouldnt be asking for more then 300whp from a stock bottom end even with a good tune.

gmcuajo1

Closed deck blocks are known to hold more/better power than open deck. Talking to people that have been mounting Darton Sleeves for years, when I ask about how much power, the first thing they say is "its depends if closed deck or open deck". Even with block guard, the closed is better...

Sparksman

Once you sleeve a block it doesnt matter if its open or closed deck....

That open deck, closed deck stuff is pretty much nonsense... Only time it ever makes a difference is when your buying a head gasket. It has NOTHING to do with power what so ever. The cylinder walls are more stout in stock form, thats about it. Maybe if you were trying to build a high HP boosted engine without sleeving maybe then, and only then would a closed deck benefit you. But not in HP, in longevity of the engine.

But at that point where it makes a difference, the factory internals are being pushed to their max. So going forged rods and pistons are a must unless you want a ticking time bomb. But you cant run forged pistons with FRM. So you need to sleeve, which at that point open and closed decks become irrelevant.

Il take my open deck H23aV BT over a base model h22a closed deck any day!

mark4germantank

So looking at taking it apart and redoing engine back to stock with new bearings and pistons and rods. I might have or in process of a bearing being spun from what i read on ht with oil light coming on
Sparkman would you suggest stock pistons and forged rods (if posible) for a (if doing this higher hp goal) 270hp to 300hp goal?

Sparksman

Drop the oil pan and see if there is gold glitter in the bottom of the pan. Also inspect the crank, spun bearings can ruin a perfectly good crank quickly if driven on for too long.

If you're removing the pistons completely might look at some H23a1 pistons with some forged rods.

H23a1 are 9.8:1 pistons, combined with a bigger dome from the Vtec head, and maybe a .040" (.010 over OEM) gasket should have you about 9.5:1 Which lower compression is better for boost.

When changing pistons and rods DO NOT forget to have balanced before installing!

ARP main and head studs are highly recommended when boosting.

Also Ive read being towards the looser end of the specs when doing rings is a good idea to extend the life of boosted or N20'd cars. FRM is hard on rings as is before power adders. As well as towards the looser end of the specs for rod bearings, if you plan to live high in the R's as most boosted cars do.


Being open deck you can buy a deck guard to fight any warping which may crack or break the cylinder walls. Ive seen debates on whether these are worth it, or even do anything. But for only $100 to potentially save, extend longevity to you turbo'd engine which you have thousands into. I probably would on mine if I was boosting, just some more peace of mind when I abuse my car.

98vtec

300 is nothing for a healthy stock block h22

Sparksman

Could you elaborate a little more then that? I know you are way more experienced with these engines then I am, but not explaining in more detail doesnt help anyone... I dont doubt what you say is true, I just want some more details if Im going to accept it and possibly repeat it to others down the road.

1-What is the max WHP would you consider pushing a reliable daily driver stock bottom?

2-What is the max WHP you would push on stock cast internals?

3-What is the max WHP you would push with only forged rods?

4-What is the max WHP you would ask from a FRM 'd block even with full forged internals?

Im not talking about track car or a toys, the whole time ive been referring to a daily driver you depend on for your job, school, and maybe transport your kids if need be.

98vtec

For one thing it's not smart to make your car unreliable in the first case without a back up plan.

As it stands now, people believe in too many myths for me to write a novel on what I believe in and it actually make a difference. I rather do instead of talk these days. My hatch makes 450 on race gas and 380 on pump. Ran it that way since November and have recently began upgrading a few things to put it in the 550 area where I still don't believe it will have a problem. There is no magic number. There are too many variables.

Technology and product advancements allow a lot more than the days of a fmax turbo kit which apparently people still think we are in that age.

In the end, FRM is very strong, the stock pistons are stronger than people put them out to be, there is no magic numbers and block guards are garbage.

Sparksman

I agree people shouldnt make their cars unreliable if its their only means of transportation. But unfortunately most people with this hobby either from being poor, or young cant afford to buy or insure two vehicles. Myself included, thats why Im just doing a mild N/A build, nothing fancy maybe 220whp for now. If I had or could afford another vehicle I would have gone for twice the HP with a turbo.

When I give advice I try to be more on the conservative side. I would feel bad if I told someone to boost their car to 400whp, they take my advice, and blow it up the next day... I know the pistons can handle a bit more, but the rods do suck, and 300whp is asking a bit from them. At least from a longevity daily driver stand point. Being that its your toy it probably doesnt see that many miles, and in short bursts when it does. Is yours a stock hybrid, or just a off the pallet toss in?

With forged rods, and a few other supporting mods the 400-500 should be achieved in a safer manner for needed longevity and reliability of what I would want in a DD. I just assume its safe to bet everyone is asking questions about their DD. Id hope they would point out if it was a toy, because most people wont go all out on a DD. Being a toy the amount of miles you get out of it is not really a concern as it would be otherwise would be. You mentioned hatch, which im assuming means H2b? I know lower gears wont add HP, but pretty sure it effects how much gets to the tires.