rustyefsedan

I just bought a 91 sedan, and want to be around 150-180whp.
I believe it has a SOHC ZC motor, and will definitely need an mpfi swap.
After that I'm gonna drive it for a while and save up.
In all my research I either find people saying to swap or turbo.
Is a DOHC head and a turbo my best option?
Any ideas on what i realistically should do?

F22Master

A basic B20Vtec build will get you that pretty easily. Hell, a stock GSR would fit the bill as well. Maybe even a B16 with a few bolt ons. Almost any of the B series motors would work for you just fine. The real deciding factor is budget and skill level.

Canadian_EF

It is possible for 160 crank hp with a single cam and no turbo.

Cost effective is kind of a funny thing. Get a budget to work with and we can help point you in the right direction.

rustyefsedan

I guess I'm really going for the cheapest I can. Skill level is low also. Civic knowledge level low also haha.

rustyefsedan

Somehow forgot that. I would like to spend $1500 or less, but if that's unrealistic I am fine with lowering my HP goal a bit.

ej1995

Mpfi, piece together a turbo kit, better head gasket and arp studs, tune on Crome. Easy, inexpensive, and relatively reliable on ~6lbs.

rustyefsedan

Thanks! I think i was a little hasty in posting, and have a lot more thinking to do.

CRXguy_88

iTrader: (7)

A simple stockish b20vtec w. Bolt ons would do it. And a built b20vtec will get you 190+ just depends on whether or not you want to buy all accommodating parts for the swap. But I say ditch the D series. good luck

alex14

turbo or lsvtec/b20vtec.

Canadian_EF

I'd save up a little more money and buy a few things.

First off, do the Mpfi conversion.
Second, save up for a b series swap. If you're like me and want to do things cheap, see what you can find locally from other honda guys.
EF b series mounts (brand new about $250, try and find innovative or hasport mounts)
Ef b series shift linkage (brand new about 150? hasport, innovative, or chop and weld a DA integra shift linkage to length)
New clutch (I went with exedy, about 250, plus flywheel resurfacing was 70)
Timing belt and water pump are optional but recommended.

Then find a nice b series transmission. Hydro ones are common with nice gear sets and lsd. Good ones are about 800-1000. Long geared not as good ones can be had for 40-250. If it's hydro, you need a conversion kit (about 150-250).

Then you need an ecu to run it. A chipped ecu would be best but it depends on your application.

Then you can worry about finding a motor. B20's are common and they are decent for a daily driver if you don't want to build the motor.
B18a/b are ok.
B18c are vtec. Expensive. Fast.
B16 are... Kinda slow and boring. I had one. I was disappointed.

Once you get to this point you can worry about boost.

You will have frame rail clearance issues and front crossmember clearance issues with any of these options.

radex7

Rusty, besides more thinking, confirm what you already have. Stock SOHC ZC should already be MPFI, was yours retrofitted back to DPFI?

Anyway, what I was really getting at is that you have a couple other cost effective options: sell your sedan and pool your money for built and running car. Such as this one, in your neck of the woods:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/4309501941.html

Other thing that crossed my mind was a California donor car. I keep seeing them crop up on craigslist rather frequently. Kids do all the conversion work, make them run, and than they get busted for non-compliance with emission regulations (BAR), and have to sell, or retrofit. Example:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4311822743.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4311685695.html

Deetz

For the money....

-B20Z, not B20B unless a late model jdm version
- b series tranny, vtec or non, the B20 works well with either one
- header- good gains on the B20, more than b16 and b18 models
- lightweight flywheels
- exhaust- custom is cheap and can work well


Optional:

- vtec head swap
- or a used jasckson racing SC for any B18A/B will bolt right on, cheap and easy

ProjetEF

I am a D-series guy , but if you want something reliable and simple, i would say get a "B" (from the same era)

solorex

I am currently running a stock low mileage B20Z with Crower 403 cams/valvetrain, ARP rod bolts, LS intake manifold, larger throttle body, I/H/E and it's putting down 178whp. With a b16 tranny it's a riot and has great useable power.

rustyefsedan

I will definitely be searching craigslist for the next few months looking for possibilities. Thanks for all the advice!

rustyefsedan

The b16 was slow and boring? when i first started reasearching, almost everything i saw was b16 swap info!

Canadian_EF

The b16 has a legacy because it came in the SiR. It was fast for its day, then the B18c and H22 came to light.

B16 can be fun with a turbo.

JustAnotherRex

Ignore the B series swap advice; in my experience a GSR swap is going to run a minimum of twice your budget if not more.

This guy has the right idea. SOHC turbo, pistons if you really want to get reliable power & higher boost levels. ~$1500 should be about what you need to piece together said, and get it rolling. If DPFI you definitely need to go MPFI first.

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

If you are on a budget STICK WITH THE SOHC ZC!!!!! You can get where you want to be with it for less money, and the b swap will be just a waste of money since you have clear goals. That is not my opinion, it is a fact. If you like to throw money away, I can send you my paypal information and you can just toss it there. Since your build is all about a goal of affordability and 150-180 whp and that the SOHC ZC can easily reach your goals then swapping to another platform is an utter waste waste waste. Overall the B series are better platforms with tons of aftermarket support, but for you this is not the best route since you already have clear and reachable goals.
The CHEAPEST way would be a turbo kit. If you don't care about reliability very much you can do this very very cheap. Also if you are patient you can find a decent quality d series turbo kit for cheap. My buddy ran a SOHC ZC in an EF along time ago. With a Greddy kit, stock internals, clutch master clutch, and a FMU he ran a best time 12.9 1/4 mile. The way he had it set up for daily driving it ran 13.5. This was a long time ago before tuning was as accessible as it is today.
If that little ZC is healthy, you can boost the stock internals on that thing and reach your goals safely. Just find a good deal on a quality turbo kit, DSM injectors, OBD1 conversion (if you don not already have this) and tune it… you've made it safely. If you got a little extra money and time to spend, change out the head bolts for some ARP head studs (this is not a necessity for your goals though). Just do not get greedy with the HP or she'll blow haha.
Still though, reliable 180 WHP is more than doable with the little SOHC ZC on stock internals. You might want to see if the clutch that is in there now can take the extra TQ but my guess is you will be fine with that on the power you are looking for.
If you decide to go B series, this will be more money than you might expect. You need the engine, trans, linkage, mounts, axles, intermediate shaft, clutch conversion (if you go with a hydro transmission), radiator hoses, exhaust work (this may include a header as well) ... a few other odds and ends… If you get poorer quality ebay mounts and weld up the linkage yourself you can save a good bit. Plus you'll want to go ahead and change the water pump, timing belt, and tensioner/idler pulley while the B series is out of the car. Also changing the clutch and flywheel would be a great idea too since its out of the car… All that and you still have to get the correct engine to meet your goals: A stock LS won't do it so you are going to go with a very well tuned B16 (which is just not worth it really considering the GSR is much better and only a little more and to get the B16 at close to the same NA level would cost way more than the difference in price.) or a GSR. The engine and trans alone could put you over budget.

rustyefsedan

Alright I took the time to figure out my engine confusion. I have a ZC block, and D15B2 head. That would explain the DPFI. The hillbilly I bought it from must have put them together for a quick cheap fix or something.

Can I but a DOHC ZC head on? or any suggestions?

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

Dude… I just told you what to do. Just do a MPFI intake swap on it. Then follow my advice for the turbo build. And if you are patient and find decent quality parts and do not get greedy with horsepower your stock long block build will last a long time.
I have had a DOHC ZC, and I liked it. BUT for what you have going on trying to go that route is a senseless waste of money. I am not trying to be rude, but this thread has been properly answered. For your budget, and goals a simple turbo set up is realistically probably the only option you have. The B series guys are suggesting a route that is better in the long run if you want a better platform, BUT it almost certainly will not get you your goals within your budget. Since your goals are relatively low WHP with a relatively low budget, this is how you can get there (provided your engine is healthy and you continue to properly maintain it).
And just to be clear, don't waste your time and money trying to do the DOHC ZC thing, it is totally and completely 100% pointless for what you are trying to do. 100% pointless… completely, unless you really like to throw money away… If that is the case I can email you my paypal and you can just throw it there.




Now, if your goals are to get a better platform (with substantially better than stock performance) which you plan on making a great budget turbo build one day then this is a whole different story. For that just do an LS swap. Later you can add a vtec head, or just turbo the stock LS. However before turboing the LS, I would suggest upgrading the rod bolts to ARP (which will require a little machining), and using ARP head studs. Cheap insurance but worth it.

rustyefsedan

Thanks. I will definitely take your advice. I was just concerned that the fact that I have the Wrong head, might be holding me back.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

150whp/130tq = b20b + rocket cams & valve springs + cheap i/e/h

180whp/135tq = rebuild a stock lsv, slap on a stock vtec head, cheap i-h-e. just make sure you do the block rebuild correctly.

.... in between would be gsr, but honestly due to price, i don't think it's nearly as cost effective as LSV or B20V for that matter.

blackeg

cheapest way bar none is a small nitrous shot. that said i would never do it.

if you want to swap, charlie's advice is right on the money for parts and power it will make.
if you dont want to swap you can get a cheap used turbo kit like a drag or greddy kit if they are still around. 6-8psi ish will probably give you 180/160 but you will need to upgrade your clutch. if you go this route, avoid the ebay turbo's and manifolds...ebay intercoolers/piping etc are ok