cfauvel

Over the course of several months I have been starting to have issues with starting my car.

I would usually just sit a few minutes and try again and it would work. Just yesterday we were having the same issue and just by chance I tapped on the starter and vroom it worked.

Ok so I bought a new starter today, put it in and it worked the first time.
So I put everything back together and it wouldn't start. UGH.

So I pulled everything apart and tested the starter on the bench and it worked fine. To get it to work I used a battery booster. Positive to the big bolt, negative to the starter's casing. and from the battery booster's cigarette lighter port used a 6 inch piece of 14-16 gauge wire to tap on the small connector at the top. It worked.

Put everything back and again it wouldn't start. Tried using the battery booster again. positive on big bolt and negative on case, but this time I used a much longer and much less beefy wire to trip the small connector on the starter, no go. I guess that the wire was just too long and too thin to give the proper voltage needed to trip the solenoid.

for whatever reason I decided to tap the starter like I did before and voila it started. Shut it off and tried again , no go. Tapped it a few times and voila... a go.

I eventually tested the small wire that gets connected to the top of the starter and verified that indeed I was getting a voltage when the key is turned. BUT I am getting in the 11+ volt range.

I am not sure if my issue is the starter needing 12+ volts to trip the solenoid, or that my voltage TO trip the solenoid is too low caused by what ? I don't know.

Should I try another starter?
Try another starter relay?
Build a DC-DC voltage converter to boost the 11+ to 12+ ?
Add an inline capacitor to give the starter solenoid a jolt?

If the last two options are viable can someone help me build that?

My other option was to buy another relay and wire it up near the starter. Mounted on the inside fender.

the relay under the dash would trip upon turning the key, which would send the 11+ voltage to the new relay, and the new relay would get a beefier cable from the battery positive to the relay then to the connector on the starter to trip the starter solenoid...my thought there is that there would be less resistance coming from the new relay to starter.

I measured the voltage at the large bolt on the starter to be 12+, which what I would figure being so close to the battery.

I know having a car with 439K is going to give me troubles, but I haven't had an issue for 435K miles.


HELP

holmesnmanny

If you tap the starter and it starts the issue is the starter solenoid. The contacts are worn.

Try another starter OR you can even just buy new starter contacts. google "larry b's starter contacts" and call him up. Denso starters are made to last. It's just the contacts that get worn out.

cfauvel

That's the problem it IS a brand new starter. On the Advanced Auto Parts' work bench it will work just fine as the voltage they'll use to trip the solenoid will be 12+ .

my wire that trips the solenoid is putting out 11+ volts.

UGAVtech

Everything you describe actually sounds like a bad solenoid...

It's part number 2 in this diagram ---

http://www.hondapartsonline.net/part...agramCallOut=4

This video will help you test it

cfauvel

I am starting to think the solenoid is bad too...but it is brand new.

as per a friend's suggestion , I installed a AAA battery in series with the solenoid trip wire and measured the voltage at the trip wire to be 13+. That should have been enough to trip the solenoid by itself. Yet I still had to tap the solenoid to get the starter to work.

so tomorrow I'm going to advanced autoparts and show them the situation. hopefully I'll get another starter.

unless you guys think the solenoid can be taken apart and fixed somehow.

cfauvel

Update
when installing the new starter I had to remove one of the long bolts to re-attach a clamp that is used to hold the radiator hose in place.

last night, thinking that I may have over tightened that long bolt I backed out the bolt several times...with no luck.

this morning, however, I was able to consecutively start the car without tapping the starter about 7 times. Went to Taco Bell, stopped the car, started the car fine. Went to Walmart and stopped the car and started the car fine. Got home stopped the car,attempted a re-start, but it would not start like before. Tapped the starter and it started right up. Tried starting the car a second time, no luck.

re-tightened the long bolt just a couple of turns and car started 6 more times consecutively.

The long bolts seem to be for the starter's armature not the solenoid, but who knows.

Thoughts?

cfauvel

update
We'll see in a few days, but I think I found the REAL issue. And i probably didn't need a new starter.

There are two positive cables coming out of the battery, one going directly to the starter and the other God know where.

The connector that these two large cables go to was replaced years ago with an aftermarket clamp style.

Today once I go to the gym, and tried to lock the doors, nothing would work, no over head light, nothing...obviously a battery issue. Popped the hood and found the smaller cable completely away from the clamp down connector.

after the gym I soldered the two cables individually so that the clamp would have something to grip (the bare wires would slip out of the clamp, with the solder they are staying under the clamp).

So far i was able to start the car consecutively 6 times without fail. We'll see tomorrow.

two UGHs
1 for buying a new starter
1 for not noticing a bad connection.

holmesnmanny

when you hit the starter it must be jiggling the connection enough to make it go againl..you must have just been hitting it real hard.

cfauvel

Update - after I my post on 10/01/2013, the car went back to it's old ways of not starting consistently.

I added another relay in the engine compartment. The small wire that use to go to the starter solenoid goes to my new relay. When the relay is tripped (by the ignition switch) the circuit for the larger wires is complete. One the larger wires goes straight to the battery + side, and the other wire that gets hot when the relay is tripped is going to the starter solenoid.

going on 2 weeks now and starts every single time...but looks ugly as hell having a bunch of wires in the engine bay by the battery.

So what can I deduce from this.
1 - the starter relay (where ever that is) under the dash is fine is doing it's job.
2 - the issue is NOT my clutch peddle(all the way down) switch, nor is it the switch's bumper that is on the peddle itself.
3 - some resistance in the engine harness somewhere is preventing me from getting the full 12V at the starter solenoid.

I think the next step is to make the new relay installation prettier and be done with it.

holmesnmanny

Your starter comes with a warranty. You should use it.

Auto parts stores starters are like alternators...more times than none they are just bad out of the box.

If it's not a connection issue it's more than likely just the solenoid.

bsdubois

I recently replaced the starter on my 1997 Accord EX 4dr. I purchased the starter at Napa. I ordered a new starter as it was about $20.00 more than a rebuild. I waited several days as it was in the warehouse and had to be shipped to my local Napa store. I finally called my local NAPA dealer and learned a new starter was not available and I had to purchase a rebuilt unit.
I received the rebuilt unit two days later. I was less than pleased when I learned it was rebuilt in Mexico and not in the USA. The specs on the starter indicate the solenoid is either replaced or the contacts are resurfaced as needed. The starter came with "computerized" test showing RPM, current draw and temperature. It comes with a lifetime warranty for what that is worth. Now I wish I had replaced the brushes and rebuilt or replaced the solenoid myself. Then I would have known that it was rebuilt in the USA.

My starter's symptoms were the same as yours. I had to tap on the starter to get it to start. The starter finally got so bad that tapping on the starter looked more questionable each time. I was concerned that it would leave my wife and family stranded and would not be along to try to get it to start.

There is very little room to remove the starter from the transmission and get it out of the car. This is something I hope I don't have to do again.

I hope this helps a bit. Good luck on your repair!