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Old 07-05-2011, 01:46 PM   #1
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Default Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

While doing the timing belt, decided to do the camshaft seal as well. The old one came apart in tiny pieces, and I spent an hour trying to dig out the old outside-side of the seal. I'm not sure I got it all out.

So my 3 questions are:

1: How can I be 100% sure the old seal is out? It's a tiny outside channel.
2: How do I get the new seal in?
3: Do I use hondabond when installing it?

Thank you.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

post pictures of what you got so car.

def do an oil change once it is completed and check for leaks.

when i did my lsvtec i changed the cam seals and used red rtv silicone. so i guess you can use honda bone. not too much.

to get the new seal on i believe you have to actually remove the timing/cam and it slides right on the end. that cam cap def has to come off.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

Hello.

If it's a plain-old 2.2 then you don't need to remove the cam or the cam cap, just the cam gear. [on a normal seal replacement]

The key to all of this is not to scratch any of the the surfaces on the cam or the surface of the head. This will only lead to problems.

Now that the old one is out, take your finger and slide it around the interior. If there are any pieces floating around, you should feel them. Work them around until they find their way out. Take your time.

A small set of curved surgical tweezers would work to carefully pick the pieces out if needed. [like a curved end roach-clip] <---Man, that's a flashback!

Place the seal around the Cam and set. I pushed the seal in evenly with my fingers as far as it would go. Then, I used a large closed in wrench to gently tap the seal into place. A large socket would also work. Make sure what ever you use matches the circumference [diameter] of the seal exactly. Tap it in slowly and evenly. The surface of the seal should line up with the surface of the head. [This is much easier to do with two sets of hands]

As far as using HondaBond on the Cam Shaft Seal; as long as the outside surface [on the head] is nice and smooth, you shouldn't have to use any HondaBond. From the threads I have read on Honda-Tech, using HondaBond is a last resort for a marred surface.

I have a severely marred matting surface on my head from a previous owner prying the Cam Seal out with a screwdriver. I tried 2 different seals. Neither would prevent oil from escaping.

I took some HondaBond and spread it carefully around the outside edge of the seal. Then, after placing the seal, I carefully spread some HondaBond around the outside edge. I did this twice. I did it once, let it set up, ran the car; then did it again.

Although this hasn't completely stopped the oil from escaping, it has slowed it to a trickle.

One tip I can offer is this: I placed everything, then ran the car without the covers up to temp and checked for oil leaks at every seal. I also checked for timing, balance shaft smoothness when running, ect. It's a longer process, but putting the car completely back together, then tearing it all back down is worse.

Hope that helps.

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Old 07-07-2011, 08:08 AM   #4
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

a post from the timing belt how-to thread...
How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

Yes...remove the cam gear. But the hard part is getting enough torque on the cam bolt to get the gear off. I have never liked taking the cam gear off with the cam installed on the head so I am going to give my version of a solution. It is possible to do it on the head but if your bottom end is at TDC.....I would take the camshaft out. Then, I like to place cam gear on a vise (with a rag to pad it). The vise will hold the gear in place so you can remove the cam gear. I like to have a friend hold the dead weight of the camshaft while I remove the cam gear. Once the gear is off (don't lose the key for the cam bolt!)....the old cam seal will slide off easily. Since you are saying it is falling apart.....check the head for some left over pieces. The new cam seal will slip right into place and then re-install the cam gear (use a torque wrench to assure it is tightened correctly). Just place the cam gear onto the head and re-install the cam caps (torqued and sequenced). Get yourself to TDC on the cam gear and install the new timing belt. After tensioner is secure....double and triple check that you have lined up everything correctly.


Good Luck!
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

I'm not sure what the block being at TDC has to do with making it harder but regardless... IMO that is WAY to much work to go through just to replace the cam seal.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

I did manage to get it out. What I didn't realize was that the seal had a metal inner piece, so what I was doing was picking at all the rubber surrounding the metal that was inside the seal.

Once I took the cam bridge and cam pulley off, that made replacing the seal easy as pie.

(by the way, DONT take the cam bridge off the car and turn it upside down. lol. parts fly everywhere.)
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

Glad you got it under control.

TouringAccord: The bottom end needs to be at TDC for the timing belt.....simple. So when the camshaft is re-installed.....then all you have to do is put the cam gear at the TDC spot too. Otherwise.....you are dealing with the unknown. Its something that should be set before you take the timing belt off. This is the sole reason I make such a comment. I hope I relieved your confusion.

Taking a cam or cams out of an Over Head set up is pretty easy. I can have them out in less than 20 minutes. But....I have done my fair share of camshaft swaps.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafrog View Post
TouringAccord: The bottom end needs to be at TDC for the timing belt.....simple. So when the camshaft is re-installed.....then all you have to do is put the cam gear at the TDC spot too. Otherwise.....you are dealing with the unknown. Its something that should be set before you take the timing belt off. This is the sole reason I make such a comment. I hope I relieved your confusion.
haha, there wasn't any confusion as to why the engine should be at TDC before starting the work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafrog View Post
Taking a cam or cams out of an Over Head set up is pretty easy. I can have them out in less than 20 minutes. But....I have done my fair share of camshaft swaps.
No, removing the cam isn't too bad, but in this case it's not necessary. A quick punch of an awl through the face of the seal, a little prying and the seal pops right out, a couple minutes after the cam gear is off. Coat the new seal in a little oil and press it into position with your thumbs, tap it the rest of the way in with a large socket. Just saying it takes longer to remove the cam from the head than it does to just replace the seal. You're doing more work than is required.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

How do you get the cam bolt off when the camshaft is still installed on the head?

My friend says he leaves the timing belt on and hold the crank still. I told him...."That is a lot of pressure on the timing belt".....he told me....."How much pressure is there when you launch?" I always think it would skip a tooth or 4

But I still take the camshafts out when I do adj cam gears or anything like the OP had to do. My friend thinks I am crazy.....and I think he is crazy. After doing a dozen timing belt changes.....I just take it all off b/c I finally got comfortable getting a timing belt on correctly lol I use to double-triple check the situation before start up (FYI I'm just a math teacher who is a shade tree mechanic)
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

I impact my camshaft bolt off the camshaft itself and no, it does not hurt it removing it out. When installing the bolt with loctite back in, thats when I have the t-belt already installed, so the cam gear doesn't move easily when I torque it down and doing so by using a homemade Honda Crank Pulley tool that holds the crank pulley in place so it doesn't turn over.

Simple as that.
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Breaking the bank, maybe. Feeling like a boss, likely.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Kinda Stuck. Replacing camshaft seal.

Yes.....exactly what my friend does (holds the crank pulley) And he states it doesn't hurt anything too.....not too sure about that....still.

But I know there are mechanics out there who do worse things on cars with a dead blow hammer on a daily basis.

My way works for me and I can do it pretty damn quick.
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