LightningTeg

How are traction bars supposed to be preloaded? Right now I have my full race ones pulling towards the front of the car about a 1/4 turn and it just doesnt feel right.

I also keep reading conflicting information on how they are to be adjusted.
I havent been doing it with the car on the ground which may an issue, but when I get home today Im going to take all the preload out of it and set it with the car on the ground.

FRernesto

Caster is what's adjusted with TB and the rule of thumb is between 3-5 degrees of caster.

AllShowNoGo727

iTrader: (1)

yea I was wondering also, ill be getting my car aligned before the next track day (the 18th). My traction bars seems to only be able to push the control arms towards the rear. The first pass i made the car almost pulled me into the wall coming thru the trap on an 1/8th mile track. this has never happened until I put the bars on. I'm hoping the alignment will fix it.

FRernesto

You need to ensure caster is even on both sides or else pulling to one side will happen.

LightningTeg

So they are supposed to be set to pull towards the front ? (or whatever it takes to get 3-5 deg)

4cylfiend

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't pull on then too much. All you will be doing is binding all your new bushings up. All I did was install them with the car in the air, tightened the bars till they were snug (no play), and then tightened all the jam nuts to lock it in place.

Once I lowered the car back down onto the ground, I drove it over and had Quinn align the car for me. May not be the "technical" way to do it, but my car goes straight as an arrow.

FRernesto

Your suspension will have some sort of natural caster whether it be positive or negative. This needs to be done while getting an alignment, positive caster is better for straight line performance but hinders cornering. Big heavy cars have no caster or even some negative to help making turning easier. That's what caster affects in suspension.

LightningTeg

I see. Well I returned it to a neutral position and it feels a lot better.

FRernesto

Glad that helped some and hopefully you understand it a bit more now

seelback

i have a ek hatch allmotor, sk2 v1 proS suspension, complete suspension rebuild with blox extended lower ball joints, moog upper camber adjutable ball joints, complete energy suspension bushing kit, bwr rear lca's, ex front lca's and sway bar, new inner and outer tie rods, buddy club rear camber kit, and a full race traction bar pulled to the front of the car as much as i could. then i went and got a alignment and told the alignment tech to not touch the traction bar(adjust caster). car drove absolutely amazing after alignment, turns and handles like a dream. now im cutting consistent 1.7 60fts and it goes down the track straight as an arrow.

LightningTeg

Yeah alignment is next. Played with suspension yesterday with the rears stiffer and car is a rocket so it'll be real nice when its all sorted out.

Jit, are you referring to Jason Quinn?

4cylfiend

iTrader: (1)

No sir. His next of kin, Kyle.

1320em1

i had mine pushing and it always drove and felt good but everybody kept telling me that i needed to pull it forward 3 deg, tried it and did not like it so put it back the way i had it

Divers

100% false! You DO NOT move the suspension with the bars. You just want them to have a slight preload on them in the PUSHING direction. Bars are in compression, not tension.

FRernesto

Please elaborate on this statement!

FRernesto

As I stated vehicle manufactures will add or take away caster from vehicles. So if you have a negative caster on one side and positive in another you just do what you said slightly preload and leave your caster values off symetrically? That will cause the vehicle to pull to one side. So if you could please tell me how just preloading is the "RIGHT" way please tell me so. In addition some of the biggest names in the industry will adjust caster with their TB. Or if you really up your game you will opt to run spherical bearings and your suspension is rock sold. Which most members on HT will not do as is very costly and the ride will be affected greatly if they like driving their vehicles on the weekends.

rs250nut

The front wheels are trying to pull forward under hard acceleration, you dont want this to happen as it hurts your wheel alignment, hence why you fit traction bars to keep them in their natural position pushed back.

FRernesto

Natural position is NOT always zero degrees caster as caster is different in every vehicle. Caster accommodates steering!

FRernesto

Here is a great article to read on "Suspension Basics"

http://ipgparts.com/blog/suspension-basics/

Steeve_Civic

So how to adjust camber near to zero?

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

Getting 3-5 degrees off the TB? LOL...

familiar discussion huh Andy LOL. Were on the same boat as multiple discussions prior :O)


You want to adjust castor? Move the top CA, pushing the axle axis back to get it is fuckn negligible at BEST (And that's on a one point mount Accord LCA, Ive been on a rack and measured it.) Pushing the wheel back has no where near the effect as swinging the top arm point to change the axis (castor).


I DO "Push" mine back a BIT, but not to get "castor", simply to get some on the bar and more of the motor over the axle. Align from there...., but its not the same as a EG/EK/DC etc.... In pushing them back... I did it on a rack to see what happened to Castor. Virtually NOTHING.

Camber? Whatever it takes to get the tire at 0 under power (Or close to it as you can)... Toe in/ ut? LOL. Thats another debate. Sometimes I wonder if the guys offering advice think about what theyre saying. Andy is 100 percent correct.


What Ive got going on works very very well on the Big heavy CD5 chassis. Apply RWD susp. theory backwards (inc weight transfer)... LOL


If castor was a serious consideration, and NOTABLY changeable by a TB, Any car with radius rods wouldnt have sloppy as **** rubber bushings in it from the factory... Think about it

Divers

Someone needs to make adjustable uca's so all these guys that are so concerned with caster can have a ball

ThE HeLLRaZoR

Let me make sure I got this right. Because i'm about to do the alignment as soon a my BelaK/Tires get here.
So your saying with my FWD Boosted b20 which i'm tryin to run some 9's with. It would be better to slightly push the Suspension back towards the Firewall vs pulling the Suspension forward with the TB? I trust what you guys at KS say, I just want make sure I understand you right. Because this go's against everything I thought I understood and have been told.

CO_RaceFab

right lol... we don't use traction bars in our eg but in the ef you have to and they are NOT pulling on the control arm all this does is bind **** up. setting them up to pull on the arms is just going to make the problem worse as the wheels are already trying to push everything forward. if you absolutely have to use them you are going to want them setup to push on the lca's ever so slightly... you can listen to whoever you want but this is the "correct" way to setup your car.

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

I see it. What you did. LOL.