b20guy

I've tried for a while to get some decent bass out these speaker locations and I just can't. I've tried cheapy pioneer $20 6x9s off a stock HU, then off a Pioneer 50x4 deck. I've tried an MTX 25x2 amp to the cheapy and better Pioneers (4 ways). Found out my + amp connection at the battery was corroded, insulated the 6x9 "plastic baffle" with foam, silicon, etc. Same thing now with an Alpine 9833 hooked to the 4 way pioneers. Nothing I've done sounded like a normal 6x9. Bass would crack at medium volume in all these configurations even after + amp connection was fixed, and baffle siliconed. I've tried pillow stuffing down near the shock mounts. The only thing that made them sound a little better (in terms of bass) was putting the cargo cover on. So I'm thinking the baffle is too flimsy, and there is really not a good airtight seal near the woofer cone. About an inch away from the woofer cone, the plastic panel ends and there is a gap there, as well as many other ways air can escape into the cargo area. Can anyone confirm that I'm at least on the right track, and possibly some solutions? I was thinking to made an mdf baffle and fiberglass it to the back side of the 6x9 opening, maybe seal things up and make a small sealed box, etc...

I already know, most people don't like 6x9s, and further, rear speakers, and subs are the way to go. I just want 4 speakers and a HU, no amp. Thanks

b20guy

Oh and I wouldn't rule out 6.5's back there, just FYI.

The Alchemist...

Your not going to get a lot of base or sound with no amps. You can make it loud but it’s not going to sound very good. 6x9 is old school stuff
here is an idea

Nice pair of fronts but low range MB Quart
Stock backs
Decent but cheap amp
JL 10”W0 in small sealed / removable box

Should be cheap and you should have some decent sounds with that set up.

fcm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've tried for a while to get some decent bass out these speaker locations and I just can't. I've tried cheapy pioneer $20 6x9s off a stock HU, then off a Pioneer 50x4 deck. I've tried an MTX 25x2 amp to the cheapy and better Pioneers (4 ways). Found out my + amp connection at the battery was corroded, insulated the 6x9 "plastic baffle" with foam, silicon, etc. Same thing now with an Alpine 9833 hooked to the 4 way pioneers. Nothing I've done sounded like a normal 6x9. Bass would crack at medium volume in all these configurations even after + amp connection was fixed, and baffle siliconed. I've tried pillow stuffing down near the shock mounts. The only thing that made them sound a little better (in terms of bass) was putting the cargo cover on. So I'm thinking the baffle is too flimsy, and there is really not a good airtight seal near the woofer cone. About an inch away from the woofer cone, the plastic panel ends and there is a gap there, as well as many other ways air can escape into the cargo area. Can anyone confirm that I'm at least on the right track, and possibly some solutions? I was thinking to made an mdf baffle and fiberglass it to the back side of the 6x9 opening, maybe seal things up and make a small sealed box, etc...

I already know, most people don't like 6x9s, and further, rear speakers, and subs are the way to go. I just want 4 speakers and a HU, no amp. Thanks
</TD></TR></TABLE>It is very important that the speakers are sealed between the front and rear, for bass, also 6x9s like the airspace of the average trunk, I would also check and make sure the speakers are in phase, [wired properly],I run 4x6.5" Eclipse speakers off an alpine HU. no amps, in my 94 teg, enough bass for me. 94

b20guy

I appreciate the response w-a-o, however, I've been through the sub thing too many times. Since 1988 I've had some kind of sub in all my cars. First car was the 2 15's, second 2 12's, 3rd 2 tens and then 2 two eights. My last sub was in fact a JL 10w4 in my ek with an mtx amp tri mode, with the front running some kenwood hq132s, old but decent speakers, and the backs were stock. I liked the sound a lot, but after the theft of my radio (a kenwood mp3 and the amp) I don't want to invest in "I can hear you down the street" bass nor an amp.

Now the car I owned before this ek and before my old prelude was an 87 cutlass supreme with i amped some 4x10 pioneers. And I loved the bass I was getting out of those. I've heard some old school infinity 6x9s running off a cheap pioneer deck in the rear deck of an older cavalier that sounded great. Not just loud, but had plenty of bass (for me).


As for the quarts, I don't care so much for them, the tweeters are a little too much for me. I'd rather get a softer sound in the upper band.

To fcm: the speakers were wired correctly, and as you mentioned, the airspace could be larger. Behind the plastic panel there is probably 2 cu ft of space per speaker, but nothing is air tight, that I'm sure of.

I'm just going to concentrate on the front right now, probably dynamat the doors and put some decent (but not too power hungry 6.5's in there) and hope for the best. I'd love to maybe create room for another 6.5" midwoofer right beside the rear seats or in the rear of the front door panel. Get as far away from the rear speaker locations as possible and move most of the sound up front. Anyone tell me if this is a good idea or not. And how much are those eclipse 6.5's and what are some other good 6.5's that do not need a whole lot of power (20-25W rms?)

Thanks for all the replies so far

Nyceguy17

Put Dynamat down all around where the speaker will contact the plastic.

On a sidenote: An IASC 2nd place sound quality winning Civic here in town has no speakers in the rear. All you really need is a good 5 1/4" or 6 1/2" Componant set in some kickpanel pods down in the floors. Not even door speakers. If you really want to, you can put mid bass drivers in the doors, but don't waste too much time/money on the 6x9's.

I have Alpine Type S 6 1/2" front and 6x9" rear speakers in my 00 DX hatch and they sound great. Although I think I blew one of my tweeters!

b20guy

any you actually got bass from the 6x9s back there? amazing...

X0

I also have an Ek hatch and i can tell you that after about 30 hours of work...i still have very little bass response from the 6x9s. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's the honest truth.
I've gone to the extent of completely gutting the interior, coating the floor from hatch to firewall in VB-1, adding a half-inch layer of carpet padding, dynamatting and VB-1"ing" the doors and rear quarter panels, filling all paneling with poly-fil AND painting the inside of all panels with rubberized undercoating....and -without a sub- i get very little bass from the back of the car. It just seems to be a bad design acoustically.
Your idea of bulding small enclosures for the 6x9s may prove fruitful, but that's further than even i want to go. I agree with your beef about the sub thing, but, from the sounds of it, you're an SQ kinda guy and i don't think you'll be happy until you put a sub in. Sorry.

X0

So as not to sound like a complete ***... here's a token of appreciation for a fellow HondaTech'r/Ek hatch owner/audiophile/TEXAN...damn...that's a lot in common.
Anywho, if you're interested, i still have quite a bit of the VB-1 left and probably about three ft of dynamat extreme. If you want to pick it up...it's yours. PM me.

oooh and another tip: wrap elec tape around the little posts on the cargo cover (where it snaps into place) and it'll stop rattling.


Modified by X0 at 2:41 PM 12/6/2004

b20guy

No, that's cool. That's exactly what I wanted to hear (to an extent) Someone who has gone through the effort and understands and confirms the general crappiness of this design. You've probably saved me a lot of time. I'm guessing with all that work, at least you eliminated most of the road noise from the hatch area. My tires Kuhmo Ecsta 712s, have gotten noisy, and man you can really hear it from the rear.

And now I'm thinking of speakers in the kick panels, and mid woofers in the doors, all dynamatted. I'm almost positive 4 6.5s up front and I'll be happy. My hearing is not what it used to be anyway (not music related) I'm just looking for a more full sound. The deck I chose was just to give me decent power and of course mp3 capability.

What exactly is VB-1?

Now who makes prefab kick panels, and what would be a good component and mid woofer setup for the doors?????

EBP_SI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And now I'm thinking of speakers in the kick panels, and mid woofers in the doors, all dynamatted. I'm almost positive 4 6.5s up front and I'll be happy. My hearing is not what it used to be anyway (not music related) I'm just looking for a more full sound. The deck I chose was just to give me decent power and of course mp3 capability.

What exactly is VB-1?

Now who makes prefab kick panels, and what would be a good component and mid woofer setup for the doors?????
</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you want good bass response without a sub, go with a 3 way component set up front with a big amp and ditch then rears totally. you could do 4 6.5's up front but i'd say try and find a 7" or 8" midbass driver to mount in the doors and then get some kick panels for the midrange and tweeter. the bass will be up front where it belongs.

can you get bass jsut from 6x9's? yes...but for the effort you'll put into it, you're better off going the route i suggested.

as for the prefabbed kick panels, i'd try building them yourself. a generic enclosure isnt going to give you the best possible sound from whatever drivers your get.

X0

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, that's cool. That's exactly what I wanted to hear (to an extent) Someone who has gone through the effort and understands and confirms the general crappiness of this design. You've probably saved me a lot of time. I'm guessing with all that work, at least you eliminated most of the road noise from the hatch area. My tires Kuhmo Ecsta 712s, have gotten noisy, and man you can really hear it from the rear.
...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, that i did accomplish. Road noise is slim to none now. That was the actual purpose of all that work...that and to make myself a little tank out of a hatchback. When i did the work i actually had those same tires. This is too wierd. Now i'm running yokos and they produce a little less noise anyway.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What exactly is VB-1?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

VB-1 is a sound deadening paste made by Cascade Audio Systems. It's basically a gray sludge that you paint onto surfaces and it dries to a rubber-like texture and kills much sound. It's a lesser known product that i was turned on to by a guy on a car audio forum that i used to frequent. If you want to get some check this site out. There should be a guy on there that goes by the name of "Gankojiji"...he can hook you up. Tell 'em Badmutha sent you.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now who makes prefab kick panels, and what would be a good component and mid woofer setup for the doors?????
</TD></TR></TABLE>

your best bet in kick panels is to have a shop fab some for you. It's pricey, but the build quality is generally much better than the little kits that you can buy from places like Q-forms.
With a component set there's a lot of options. Really you need to decide how much you're willing to spend. I bought a decent (not great, but within my budget) set of JL three-way components that i still have yet to install. Those include a 6.5, 4, and tweet. Currently i'm running a little POS set of Alpine (Type-R, y0!) coaxs in the doors and they are suck. Don't use those.

If you have Qs about audio stuff...check out that link above. Those guys got me started in all this stuff and they are very knowledgible (sp?) and helpful.

b20guy

You know, I thought of that, at least partially. I was working on a 90 ish celica GT with what looked to be 7 or 8 inch door speakers. I was trying to figure out how I could grab parts of those door panels and graft them onto mine...

b20guy

Anyone have any suggestions for 6 1/2s up front off of headunit power?
&lt;$120.00 pr.

fcm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone have any suggestions for 6 1/2s up front off of headunit power?
&lt;$120.00 pr.</TD></TR></TABLE>Eclipse, http://www.eclipse-web.com 94