Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power
10-20-2008, 01:15 PM
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Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power
gap to .038", looks lean, detnation maybe??
Plug cylinder 1
Plug cylinder 2
Plug cylinder 3
Plug cylinder 4 , i think i see detonation here
but the other side of the plug 4 is white
no wideband to determine anything, motor is still running good and want to tune it asap!! is it worth it to tune this motor after the plugs look like this already??
Plug cylinder 1
Plug cylinder 2
Plug cylinder 3
Plug cylinder 4 , i think i see detonation here
but the other side of the plug 4 is white
no wideband to determine anything, motor is still running good and want to tune it asap!! is it worth it to tune this motor after the plugs look like this already??
10-20-2008, 01:24 PM
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (b20vtech)
hard to tell from the pics but it looks like you should be running 7's and not 6's for a heat range. It also looks like you need to back down your timing a little bit. Air fuel doesn't look to bad but remember, I'm seeing this through the internet. I'd let someone local, who's an experienced tuner have a close look at them.
10-20-2008, 01:29 PM
#3
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (00Red_SiR)
A set of 7's and maybe 1-2 less degrees of timing. Hard to tell, was this a "hot" shutoff, or plug run.
10-20-2008, 05:54 PM
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (DonF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A set of 7's and maybe 1-2 less degrees of timing. Hard to tell, was this a "hot" shutoff, or plug run.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok long story, this was after a 15 min freeway run, parked for about 15 mins, 1 min driving home, and after 20 minutes of the car parked, i took out the plugs and started taken pictures. No WOT was made during any of the driving.
ok long story, this was after a 15 min freeway run, parked for about 15 mins, 1 min driving home, and after 20 minutes of the car parked, i took out the plugs and started taken pictures. No WOT was made during any of the driving.
10-20-2008, 05:56 PM
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (00Red_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hard to tell from the pics but it looks like you should be running 7's and not 6's for a heat range. It also looks like you need to back down your timing a little bit. Air fuel doesn't look to bad but remember, I'm seeing this through the internet. I'd let someone local, who's an experienced tuner have a close look at them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
how do u tell by looking at the plugs that timmings a little to advanced??
how do u tell by looking at the plugs that timmings a little to advanced??
10-20-2008, 06:15 PM
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (b20vtech)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20vtech »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
how do u tell by looking at the plugs that timmings a little to advanced??</TD></TR></TABLE>
from the "speckling" on the white porcelain which means you're getting some preignition. If that plug was not run at WOT then I would back some timing out of the middle of your map area.
how do u tell by looking at the plugs that timmings a little to advanced??</TD></TR></TABLE>
from the "speckling" on the white porcelain which means you're getting some preignition. If that plug was not run at WOT then I would back some timing out of the middle of your map area.
10-20-2008, 07:05 PM
#7
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (b20vtech)
you gauge the heat range based on the discoloration on the threads.
With some help from and friend and finally experience with trial and error, i have found that you need about 2-3 threads of discoloration for the proper heat range. Run a 7 plug and you will be a little better off. The ground strap and "look" of the porcelain determines ignition timing. Look at the 3rd pictures. That white spot at the bottom of the ground strap should be around the apex of the bend in the strap. Approx 2-3 * retard would put the burn mark in the proper place.
youve got detonation in cylinder 3 and cylinder 4. This could be from too much timing or running too lean or too hot of a plug (surface ignition) or a combination of all of them.
hard to tell but the 2nd picture kind of shows the base of the porcelain where you read the fuel ring. From what i can tell, it doesnt look like a full fuel ring which means you are running a little lean. If you can get pictures with the base of the porcelain lit up, you will be able to tell much easier. Either that or cut the plug open to expose the inside.
clean the threads and ground strap off with some brake cleaner and lightly with a wire brush to expose the heat discoloration a little better.
http://bbmoto.net/wiki/index.php?ReadingSparkPlugs
what compression is this motor? what engine management are you going to use? Looks like each one of your cylinders is going to want a little different timing.
With some help from and friend and finally experience with trial and error, i have found that you need about 2-3 threads of discoloration for the proper heat range. Run a 7 plug and you will be a little better off. The ground strap and "look" of the porcelain determines ignition timing. Look at the 3rd pictures. That white spot at the bottom of the ground strap should be around the apex of the bend in the strap. Approx 2-3 * retard would put the burn mark in the proper place.
youve got detonation in cylinder 3 and cylinder 4. This could be from too much timing or running too lean or too hot of a plug (surface ignition) or a combination of all of them.
hard to tell but the 2nd picture kind of shows the base of the porcelain where you read the fuel ring. From what i can tell, it doesnt look like a full fuel ring which means you are running a little lean. If you can get pictures with the base of the porcelain lit up, you will be able to tell much easier. Either that or cut the plug open to expose the inside.
clean the threads and ground strap off with some brake cleaner and lightly with a wire brush to expose the heat discoloration a little better.
http://bbmoto.net/wiki/index.php?ReadingSparkPlugs
what compression is this motor? what engine management are you going to use? Looks like each one of your cylinders is going to want a little different timing.
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10-21-2008, 07:32 AM
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (98vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is the compression?</TD></TR></TABLE>
wel, i think it's somewhere in the 8.8:1 to 9:0cr
wel, i think it's somewhere in the 8.8:1 to 9:0cr
10-21-2008, 10:49 AM
#11
Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (b20vtech)
Send me your bin file.
Looks like some "cockroach turd" present on da plugs.
Some other signs also present on da plugs (can't give away da pharm publicly though).
Pro Help fo da win!!!!
Looks like some "cockroach turd" present on da plugs.
Some other signs also present on da plugs (can't give away da pharm publicly though).
Pro Help fo da win!!!!
10-21-2008, 11:44 AM
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (Master of the Universe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Send me your bin file.
Looks like some "cockroach turd" present on da plugs.
Some other signs also present on da plugs (can't give away da pharm publicly though).
Pro Help fo da win!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont have access to the bin file, what about i mail u the chip?
Looks like some "cockroach turd" present on da plugs.
Some other signs also present on da plugs (can't give away da pharm publicly though).
Pro Help fo da win!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont have access to the bin file, what about i mail u the chip?
10-21-2008, 12:12 PM
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (Master of the Universe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Send me your bin file.
Looks like some "cockroach turd" present on da plugs.
Some other signs also present on da plugs (can't give away da pharm publicly though).
Pro Help fo da win!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Love this *** f0 sh0 bro
Looks like some "cockroach turd" present on da plugs.
Some other signs also present on da plugs (can't give away da pharm publicly though).
Pro Help fo da win!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Love this *** f0 sh0 bro
10-21-2008, 12:12 PM
#15
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Re: Help me with my plugs NGK BKR6 V-Power (Master of the Universe)
i take it you are using crome? Good luck getting much useful information from looking at the bin.
10-24-2008, 04:36 PM
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Ok, some update on this,
got some new plugs NGK BKR7E-11, gapped to .038" and got a new chip with a base map from Phearable.net , also pulled 2 degrees of timming out, took car out for couple of WOT runs, let me know whats going on with these new plugs......
plug 1
plug 2
plug 3
plug 4
got some new plugs NGK BKR7E-11, gapped to .038" and got a new chip with a base map from Phearable.net , also pulled 2 degrees of timming out, took car out for couple of WOT runs, let me know whats going on with these new plugs......
plug 1
plug 2
plug 3
plug 4
10-24-2008, 08:47 PM
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Re: (IntegraType-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraType-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">reason why your running a .38 gap? instead of something a tad smaller?</TD></TR></TABLE>
wel first of all i din't know where to gap em, so i left them at .038. Is there a recommended gap that i should use instead of .038 for this motor?
wel first of all i din't know where to gap em, so i left them at .038. Is there a recommended gap that i should use instead of .038 for this motor?
10-25-2008, 03:49 AM
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Re: (b20vtech)
Plugs look better. I'm sure a .38 gap is fine for what you're running. The general rule of thumb is to run the largest gap possible that your ignition setup can support without misfiring. If you have a stock ignition, you should be good where you're at. Only other thing you could do is try adjusting the plug gaps while on the dyno to see where the motor likes it.
10-25-2008, 06:38 AM
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Re: (00Red_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plugs look better. I'm sure a .38 gap is fine for what you're running. The general rule of thumb is to run the largest gap possible that your ignition setup can support without misfiring. If you have a stock ignition, you should be good where you're at. Only other thing you could do is try adjusting the plug gaps while on the dyno to see where the motor likes it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i was also under the impression that 32-34 gap was great for all motor......specially on high compression motors.
i was also under the impression that 32-34 gap was great for all motor......specially on high compression motors.
10-25-2008, 07:27 AM
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Re: (IntegraType-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraType-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i was also under the impression that 32-34 gap was great for all motor......specially on high compression motors.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The more you close down the gap on a plug, the more "shrouded" the spark becomes to the air/fuel mix in the chamber. In a high compression motor or FI motor, the spark can get "blown out", especially when running lower power stock ignition systems, if the gap is to large.
Motors in general will make more power on a larger gap than a smaller one, assuming the ignition system is strong enough to consistently fire accross that gap. This is why most modern cars run high power coil on plug ignitions and larger plug gaps. It helps fire under leaner mixtures and will make more power with better emissions.
i was also under the impression that 32-34 gap was great for all motor......specially on high compression motors.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The more you close down the gap on a plug, the more "shrouded" the spark becomes to the air/fuel mix in the chamber. In a high compression motor or FI motor, the spark can get "blown out", especially when running lower power stock ignition systems, if the gap is to large.
Motors in general will make more power on a larger gap than a smaller one, assuming the ignition system is strong enough to consistently fire accross that gap. This is why most modern cars run high power coil on plug ignitions and larger plug gaps. It helps fire under leaner mixtures and will make more power with better emissions.
10-25-2008, 09:50 AM
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Re: (00Red_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The more you close down the gap on a plug, the more "shrouded" the spark becomes to the air/fuel mix in the chamber. In a high compression motor or FI motor, the spark can get "blown out", especially when running lower power stock ignition systems, if the gap is to large.
Motors in general will make more power on a larger gap than a smaller one, assuming the ignition system is strong enough to consistently fire accross that gap. This is why most modern cars run high power coil on plug ignitions and larger plug gaps. It helps fire under leaner mixtures and will make more power with better emissions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The more you close down the gap on a plug, the more "shrouded" the spark becomes to the air/fuel mix in the chamber. In a high compression motor or FI motor, the spark can get "blown out", especially when running lower power stock ignition systems, if the gap is to large.
Motors in general will make more power on a larger gap than a smaller one, assuming the ignition system is strong enough to consistently fire accross that gap. This is why most modern cars run high power coil on plug ignitions and larger plug gaps. It helps fire under leaner mixtures and will make more power with better emissions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
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