raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

get a belt tensioner since you dont have ac or power steering.
it mounts where your power steering bracket goes.

4g hatch

i dont think lmas would cause that belt issue. only thing i could see them doing is wearing the rocker pads pre maturely, as long as it goes away when warm i wouldnt sweat it until you get all the kinks worked out i got one that is slightly taping at times myself lol..i think it was the gears anyway....when i tighten a timing belt i shoot for being able to turn the belt a half turn in either direction on the long side that doesnt touch the tensioner with the motor cold.

Bowman

WELL JUST REBUILT THE TRANNY PUT IT IN THE CAR...STARTED THE MOTOR..SOUNDED NOISY EXPECTED AS IT HAS SAT FOR ABOUT A MONTH NOW..CAR FIRED RIGHT UP..HEARD TAP TAP TAP..GAVE IT A LITTLE REV AND SOUNDED LIKE A BAG OF BOLTS DROPPED ON THE ROOF..SO I GET OUT OF THE CAR AND LOOK AT THE PROBELM CHILD FIRST THIS ******* BELT LOOSE AS HELL...WELL THE BELT HELD GOOD AND STRONG CAMGEARS IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS(SUICIDE)..APPEARS THE TENSIONER FAILED NOW...WTF?! REALLY?! WTF?!?! CHECKED TENSION ON BOLT STILL TORQUED TO 56 POUNDS AND THE BELT WAS SO LOOSE ITS LIKE THE TENSIONER ISNT EVEN THEIR...AGAIN LAST ORDEAL I BOUGHT NEW PUMP,CAM GEARS, BELT AND NEW TENSIONER BOLT...AT THIS POINT IM SO FED UP WITH THIS ****...ONE PROBLEM AFTER ANOTHER>>>I HAVE DONE MORE J/H/F/B/D TIMING BELTS IN MY LIFE THAN THERE ARE FIBERS IN ONE..IM SELLING THIS **** AND HAVE NO DESIRE TO FIX THE HEAD..CAUSE AFTER ALL THIS HAS BEEN ISSUE SINCE DAY ONE..ANYONE CARE TO SHARE AN EXPERIECE LIKE THIS?

Bowman

....(cliff notes)... belt would always stay tight..just kept eating the teeth off..new toda belt holds exclellent not a fiber of red missing..but out of nowhere the belt came loose..and the tensioner bolt is tight... again i simply ask WTF.. i dont wana say the K word.. but chain>rubber band at this point :`(

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Stripped thread in the tensioner bolt area?

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

obviously something wrong.

when people run 95 crank with 86 bore and biggest cams you can find and no problem theres obviously something that is causing this...

is your clutch put in right? its centered?
cam journals are not damaged that seizing the cam momentarily

tear it down and check everything is my suggestion unless you know what might be wrong that you didnt fix from the begining?

like on my head i know theres an issue with valve seats and possibly valve guides. and one of my valves or rockers is making noise. but its been 8000 miles and so far the noise is same as when it first started...

Salami

Torque for the tensioner pulley bolt is 40 ft lbs, not 56 ft lbs. Sounds like your tensioner and/or the bolt hole are fucked from over tightening.

Bowman

no that was my shear paranoia on that torque,tensioner bolt is tight and fastened and did not strip out..motor is coming apart standby for sales thread and damage pics...the journals were fresh only thing new on that head was the toda cams..

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

So.. towing to a professional for a last look over is out of the question? If not, good luck on your sales.

teggy!

idk why nobody asked and it may be something easily overlooked. what did u tq th e cams caps down to when u put the cams in


Posted from Honda-tech.com App for Android

Bowman

@ THE SHODAN i am a technician at honda (7years) lol>it was towed back to my dealer...Me and master tech of the shop may look at it later.... 14 ft pounds on the 12mm and 9 ft pounds on the 10 mm end caps.. still at a loss of words..will post pics when i get home this week

mark@silbernage

I had an experience with the belt flapping as you describe, when cold. Lost it about 4k after the first rebuild - less than a mile from home after a cold start - heading for work.

I think the combination of high-compression, high lift, and correspondingly higher valve spring rates can create some nasty harmonics in the belt. When the belt snapped, it broke cleanly between two teeth. I think the vibration got bad enough to cause p2v contact, cam stopped, belt kept going...

In my case, lift was/is around 12mm ex and 12.25 in.

When I re-installed everything, I put in a timing belt idler (Endyn). It bolts to the power-steering mounting holes on the head (did the PS delete) and has a roller about 1/3 of the way down between the exhaust cam gear and the crank.

Seems to work well. I still see some vibration when cold but nothing extreme; the tensioner seems to be doing it's job. Smooth at operating temps.

Time will tell!


Mark

Chugger

maybe the tensioner bolt stretched

DDTECH

Stop talking in fucken caps.

Bowman

I'm sorry work computer stuck on caps,lol thanks for the feedback..@mark>yeah cold seemed weird all the time but after a few full throttle or warm up belt would be taught as heck.. then let it sit 45 min motor unturned,untouched motor cold to the loose n flappy..again.. (gates the worst) If we can all say a prayer for at least proper valve seats and i didnt kill the head you see in my avatar..96 Handported R head.. ;/

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's fine. But 7 years or 15 years. A second and 3rd pair of eyes is always a good idea. I meant no insult that you are not at "professional" status, I'm simply saying that before throwing in the towel, another pair of eyes never hurts.

FlewByU352

Food for thought... Toda valve springs are progressive and we all know Toda cams have steep ramps rates. Well the progressive valve springs damper the steep ramp rates and the valve train works a lot more smoothly. IIRC Toda is the only company with progressive spring rates, and it makes sense why they are made to match their cams. Think of a stiff linear spring compressed, fine when at peak but harsh slamming the valve train when the cam profile is steep on the backside. Like letting a compressed spring go versus slowly letting it extend.

Bowman

^^HEARD ..lol i might through in the towel this week but next moth i wil be back lol i never backaway for long before someone flys by me and im like **** why am i rolling stock and slow

C Hustle

this **** is happening to me as we speek....
GSR port and polish head
pro 1 cams
supertech allmotor dual valve springs ti retainers
nsx lma
supertech flat valves high comp
pr3 pistons in GSR block
golden eagle cam gears


Every 5,000 miles on OE belt... cant figure it out...everything checks out like u... I have 11,000 miles on engine... thankfully nothing is bent... ordered toda belt, thinkin about the endyn tensioner.... gonna get my degree double checked, but when at TDC everything on cylinder 1 is shut, so I don't want to throw $200 away if I don't have to...

not thread jackin, but
PLEASE HELP US FIGURE THIS **** OUT.

Black R

All I know is that I never had a problem with Toda cams.

I did shred a Toda belt after 25k miles, but that was because of my own negligence.

I ran spec B's and spec C's for 10 years without issue, when others had problems.

I would suggest you run a PE belt and greater than stock tension.

I posted about this in numerous threads and even a how-to in the archives.

Good luck.

Bowman

UPDATE<><<>< well head is apart.. not to bad MY FIND: 2 valves intake bent...2 cracked guides barely tapped the seat..sending out to machine shop get pressure tested more valves bent but on a microscopic level (signs of contact)..Cam journals look excellent..no signs of binding..a little tiny lip on the seal journal from my excessive belt tension..not to bad...caps are beautiful.. LOST MOTIONS :/...hmmmm some of the VTEC pads are worn down on the inside (toward center of head) like LMA binding/restriction at high lift...they all feel stiff to me past 2 mm..Cams look great no signs of over tightening.. AS luck has it motor is getting pulled to do tranny and im going to helicoil the tensioner hole just for the hell of it..at this point..Switching to Pro 1 cams however..as flubyu352 said makes sense..and am def in the market for endyn 2nd tensioner...never liked the back side of a b-series being so long without anything with tensioner on reverse side..AGAIN THE TODA BELT DID ITS JOB THIS TIME!>> Belt flapped loose on cold start and hopped a few teeth..

Cliffnotes.. TODA CAMS,EBAY Cam GEAR - OEM BELT > SHREDED
GATES RACE> SHREDED
AEM GEARS,TENSIONER>BOLT>WATER PUMP&TODA BELT>TOGETHER LIKE NEW AFTER 500+miles
LMA's were goin bad the last 500 it seems
BELT KEPT FLAPING LOOSE COLD START ONLY>> VALVES GO CLAKK. NOW THE WHY?