Could I hook up the purple & green wired MSD harness into the CKP wire/s and TDC wire/s in the distributor, and have it work properly? I work with a know-it-all, done-everything tech who says that he wired another guy's 1.6 Honda like that. But I can't find anything about it here.

 

Do it like this......green and purple are not used.....throw away

Remove original coil from distributor

Thick red ....12V constant
Thick black....Ground....battery or good body ground
small red.......to yellow black off of original coil in distributor....there may be two
small white....to blue or yellow wire from coil
small orange.....to + new coil
small black.......to - on new coil.......orange and black have own covering

I do not suggest using original coil in distributor.....it will burn out and also destroy the ignitor....they are not cheap to replace!

 

Wired my Accel off the factory coil. Round terminal is the positive, square, or flag terminal is the negative trigger wire. Don't know MSD's colors. Probably help if you posted the entire list of what you are installing, model of ignition module,etc.

 

CKP, TDC, and CYP sensors in the distributor feed the ECU information from which it derives the ignition firing event. An MSD is incapable of calculating your firing event, it merely controls the coil to produce a better quality spark based on IGO signal from the ECU... you know, once the stock Honda ignition system is no longer up to the task, which is around 400 whp in a forced induction application.

MSDs eat ignitors, regardless of the coil you use. Your best bet, once you eclipse 400 whp and need to run one, is to do away with the ignitor entirely. There is a nice wirteup on doing so on pgmfi.org, to be seen here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IMALLSLO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do it like this......green and purple are not used</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know how to hook it up conventionally. Thanks for trying, but that wasn't my Q.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CKP, TDC, and CYP sensors in the distributor feed the ECU information from which it derives the ignition firing event.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How exactly does this happen? Are we talking about an on/off pulse-type signal for each cylinder? I'm trying to grasp in my head why this wouldn't work. I need to understand completely so that I can explain it to the guy I work with that "used the CKP sensor to trigger the MSD in a guy's Civic a few years ago". Unfortunately, he doesn't remember exactly how he had it wired for me to try. *rollseyes*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An MSD is incapable of calculating your firing event</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, which is why I was thinking of leaving the wires intact & only splicing into them.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a nice wirteup on doing so on pgmfi.org, to be seen here.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. Unfortunately, the circuit isn't working for me either way that I have it wired.

 

TDC, CYP, and CKP are raw sensor inputs from which the ECU determines your crankshaft angle and the point at which to fire a particular cylinder.

The CKP is a 16 tooth (OBD0) or 24 tooth (OBD1+) wheel, you run your ignition off of that - if the MSD will read an unamplified signal - and you'll get either 16 or 24 firing events per combustion cycle (two crankshaft revolutions). You only need four firing events per combustion cycle, and you need those to be precisely times for optimum power. Wiring MSD to CKP is a fantasy, you might want to find a better mechanic.

As I've hinted, unless you have a 400+ whp track car, MSD is useless. You might save yourself some money and hassle and just run your stock ignition.

 

I know for a fact that this can be done. I'm trying to get more info on the procedure myself. This is commonly done when people run dual carbs. They lock out the stock distributor and use the magnetic pickup lines from the MSD. The problem with this is you get flat timing. If you want a timing curve, I believe you either need an MSD 8980 or a Digital 6 MSD.

What your trying to do with tapping into the dist. rather than locking it out is different and I don't know if that will work. I don't see any benefit either, over running it the normal way MSD says to. The reason for locking out the distributor is when you go to carbs, the ECU is no longer in the equation to control the timing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wiring MSD to CKP is a fantasy, you might want to find a better mechanic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, we are both mechanics.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As I've hinted, unless you have a 400+ whp track car, MSD is useless.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's definitely not needed, by any stretch of the imagination, however, I can't see how one could substantiate that the multiple and more powerful spark events produced by the MSD are "useless". That's cool though, we can just disagree on that point.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might save yourself some money and hassle and just run your stock ignition.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If I hadn't bought the MSD years ago before I knew better, AND didn't need to spend $170 to replace my blown ICM to go back to stock, believe me, I would!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The CKP is a 16 tooth (OBD0) or 24 tooth (OBD1+) wheel, you run your ignition off of that - if the MSD will read an unamplified signal - and you'll get either 16 or 24 firing events per combustion cycle (two crankshaft revolutions).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what I was looking to hear - thank you much. So, what about the TDC & CYP sensors - what would triggering the MSD off of one, or both, of these do, (provided that it can actually be done)?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Steve91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't see any benefit either, over running it the normal way MSD says to.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The benefit is that I can save myself $170.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The CKP is a 16 tooth (OBD0) or 24 tooth (OBD1+) wheel, you run your ignition off of that - if the MSD will read an unamplified signal - and you'll get either 16 or 24 firing events per combustion cycle (two crankshaft revolutions).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wait, I thought that crank triggers always had that many, or nearly that many teeth? Do GM's only have four & that's why this http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/pdf20.pdf works? Or is there a bigger picture that I'm completely missing?

 

Bump

 

I don't know if this answer your question but, currently I'm running MSD SCI-L to eliminate my ICM or ignitor completely; which mean there's no ignitor at all and it prove to me more reliable than Honda ignitor. It not as simple as wire thing up, it took more than just wiring. I build the circuit exactly as what is shown on the PGMFI.org, it work for me on the first try.

 

UPDATE;
Got it to run off of the TDC sensor. The timing curve is flat, but at least I can pull it in & out of the shop to work on it. Anyway, I've got some other demons at work that I need to find before anything is going to be right. The ICM yell/grn wire is suppose to have 12V @ the ECU @ KOEO. For some reason, I'm only getting around 9V no matter how I have things hooked up. Helm's says to replace the ICM if you don't get 12V there, but my ICM is no longer in the mix. Other people that have done this circuit verified that there SHOULD be 12V @ the ECU, so I don't know wtf is wrong.

It was suggested to me to drop the 4.7k resistor, in the bypass circuit, in favor of one with a bit less resistance, so we'll see what happens.

 

Correct me if I'm wrog...you try to eliminate the ignitor?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HIStateEG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Correct me if I'm wrog...you try to eliminate the ignitor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I'm trying to make it work without replacing my bad ignitor.

 

Oh I see what you doin...My goal is the same as your, I'm using MSD box to replace my crapy Honda ignitor. The differences is that I'm not using the magnetic pickup wires from the MSD box, instead, I build a small circuit learned from pgmfi.org to convert the signal from the ECU and wire it to the small red and white wire on the MSD box. Right now I'm runny my 96 LS distributor with no internal ignitor, just the MSD box. Believe it or not, 3 ignitors crap out on me within 1 month

 

It sounds like you figured it out, but I'll post this anyways...

The easy way of getting the ref signal is using the 4 tooth trigger wheel that is already on the Stock Honda Distributor, which is called the TDC postion sensor from Honda(Magnetic type, fall trigger). The color wiring of this sensor from Honda is Orange/Blue(crank+) and White/Blue(crank-).

MSD makes an add on timing box that will reduce your timing 20' below 1000rpms and then gradually raise it up to your static timing number at 3000rpms.

 

Can you outline how exactly you have this wired up? I'm trying to do the same thing on my CRX right now and haven't had any luck yet.

 

Wow, this thread is a bad joke.

You can replace your ignitor with the simple circuit described at pgmfi.org which has been recommended to you by two different people now. Done deal, no more blown ignitors, and inexpensive. Instead you hotwire your TDC sensor to the MSD and lock your timing, which renders the car useless and gutless as a daily driver or performance machine. Now, in the age of freeware standalones, you're being recommended to spend 6 times what a chip burner would cost you, to run Uberdata and have full standalone functionality, to have some piggyback rig **** ignition system.

Great tech guys Good stuff!

edit: as far as multiple spark ******ry from the MSD being good, ever seen a dyno where the MSD loses power over stock ignition? Search the FI forum, up to 40whp lost in extreme cases. Run 15-16 volts to your coil or get a different ratio coil, when you reach the power level that you need a stronger spark, and stop mucking around playing with **** that isn't broken.

 

Thanks for the worthless post. You have no idea what the hell your talking about. I'm not running an MSD on a stock engine. Its on a carburated race engine with over 14:1 compression. An MSD is a must for this application to provide a rev limiter and sufficient spark for such high compression at 8,500rpms.

 

Who cares about your engine, the thread is about 94gsr ditching his ignitor.