As a reaction to some recent posts (and my own sick need to know everyone else's business) I'm curious what setups you guys are running on your track cars. So, how about it? What are you running for spring rates, swaybar thickness, etc.?

RR98ITR- Are you serious? 600lb f / 900lb r ? How much does your car weigh?

FWIW, I'm currently streeting my '93 Civic EX Coupe with Integra shocks, ITR springs, and 21mm rear Progress bar (stock front) at 2400lbs curb weight. Planned race setup for next year is custom valved Koni's w/ 550lb f / 650lb r springs and 22-26mm rear bar at 2350lbs curb weight.

-T

 

I'm very happy with 400/600. But 600/900 with proper damping is probably awesome.

Warren

 

I think it’s a great idea to share setups. Afterall, we're all in it for fun and it's not like this is F1 or anything like that!

The ITA crx we run most of the time has 500f 700r eibach race springs with koni dbl. adj. revalved shocks mounted upside down. The front sway bar is off while we sometimes run the stock rear bar or leave it disconnected depending on the track. Shock settings are basically stiffer in the rear than the front. In the "backup" car we have has the same suspension setup except that the shocks are single adj. koni revalved units. Both CRXs were build by OPM Motorsports with all their speed and suspension "tricks" put into them. Wheels are 14x7 front and 14x6 back with 225s hoosiers and the CRXs weigh in at just over the legal 2140 lbs minimum weight with driver. I've heard of different setups out there, but it's basically all based on preference. Other than that, I know that ITS fwd cars such as a Del Sol vtec runs around 800f with 1200r rates (at just under 2400 lbs!), which is probably what similarly prepped integras and preludes would also run at around 2600-2700 lbs weight.

 

Upside down? Can you explain why they did it that way?

 

I'm currently running 550/900 on my ITA CRX. We had gone back to 400/600 for a couple races but the car didn't feel like it had the grip that it does with the higher rates. Weight is about 2150 depending on fuel load.

My Penske shocks are inverted as well...

Scott

 

il8apex,

I too run the 600f 900r Mugen N1 setup, along with the 26mm rear Mugen bar. Don't let the numbers fool you, this setup is still VERY neutral.

 

I run Ground controls with eibach ERS springs: 750f 650r in my 95 civic si hatch with B18c5. Koni yellows set to about 70% stiff in front and 85% rear, 22mm rear bar, stock front bar, and 16" volks te37s...I also have a front big brake kit....I mention this becasue both the wheels and kit significantly lower the unsprrung weight upfront which effect spring rate choices, etc..... Unlike many of the drivers who posted here, I prefer the stiffer springs in the front. I can still easily break the rear free, but find it better balanced for my style of driving.

dave w

 

sorry I forgot:

car weights in at 2490, distributed to 60% f and 40%R.

davew

 

HRACER- Yeah, what's up with the upside-down thing? Doesn't that put the adjustments at the bottom of the shock? If you tell me I'll be your friend forever!

DaveW- The hefty front (compared to rear) spring makes sense, with the extra weight from the swap. I'd be surprised if the distribution isn't more than 60% front now...

Andrew- I was checking out your cage, and wondering about the main hoop diagonal. Is that SCCA or NASA legal, or are you just running track days?

Back to the spring rate issue: I had once heard that Real Time Racing (the World Challenge team) were using "soft" rates of 600lb f/800lb r and would go up to 800lb f/ 1200lb r for faster tracks. And that's on street tires! Crazy, man...

All of you guys are convincing me that my planned rates are too soft!

-T

 

The cage was built as per SCCA Proracing specs. Take a look at the Realtime Racing Integra's diagonal bar.

 

The upside down is to reduce unsprung weight. If you look at how most shocks are mounted, the shock body is on the bottom. By reverse mounting them, the only weight that is then unsprung is the wieght of the shaft.

 

Yep, unsprung weight reduction. Some folks will also tell you the shocks stay cooler when inverted. I dunno.

Some of the ITS Integras and Preludes out there are running as high as 1000lb front and 1400lb rear. I plan to go with 800f and 1000r when I get my shocks revalved.
Remember, you will NEED race valved shocks to handle anything over 500 or 600lbs.

 

Wow I feel like such a newbie in light of all these "several hundred pound spring rates" I run 375F/425R with a 22mm Progress rear bar (which mounts way outboard on the control arms). Polyurethane bushings everywhere there's a bushing.

When my car's "good," as in on same-brand tires and its ignition is working (both these things have plagued me all season), I find it...a bit loose. Fast certainly, but a bit loose. Strangely, student cars I've been in (madhatter comes to mind) feel much more well behaved...with spring rates in the 600/800 range. So this offseason I'll put 600/800 (or something slightly higher) on. Of course with this I'll install a set of race-valved shocks - no more off-the-shelf stuff.

Any shock manufacturers lurking in here that want to sponsor a car in the Honda Challenge?

--Karl...who's glad to see people on here again, because he needs a diversion from "other stuff"

 

Hey Karl,

Your car may feel loose because the softer springs are allowing the camber to change enough mid corner to not use the entire tire. Especialy with the track speeds you usually see.. Just a thought.

I run 300 f / 550 r in the CRX, with currently a stock rear bar. I hae a 22 mm adj. bar waiting to go on. The car feels great for autocrossing. I can tell it would be a bit twitchy for track events though. With the adj. rear bar, the car should turn in even better. I will let you know if I eve get a new set of tires to run on it.

EC

 

Crosser and RoadRacer have already explained why some shocks are inverted. I've never heard about them running cooler, though. Interesting!

Scott J., did you run that setup at R.A.? That's one aggressive spring rate combo. How does it feel in turns 1, esses and 12? I would imagine in the wet conditions we had it must have been even more "exiting".

As a comparison, I took the type r I usually autox for some laps around road atlanta. Even with its relatively "soft" spring rate - somewhere around 160-250 lbs progressive all around, I found the balance to be great. Much more neutral than any other street car I took around a track before. I was also surprised how little bodyroll it seemed to have. I remember one time at Talladega (1.4? mile track) where I drove another type r along with 6 or 7 other cars, the itr certainly seemed to have had great balance and the least bodyroll. I know this is due to the thick sway bar it has. So I'm wondering if there are setups out there that rely on large sway bars all around coupled with softer springs and can this produce similar results as stiffer suspensions? I'm thinking that to a certain point it can.

 

Crosser - interesting you mention that. RR98ITR suggested the same thing. If nothing else...driving it this way has probably helped my car control skills

To answer the question on the subject line though...Yes, absolutely these spring rates are for real. If you put anything like this on your car...never, ever ask why it rides so poorly

 

It was my understanding that inverting the shocks allowed the Bound/Rebound to be inverted. As hard as you try, the valving for the bound is going to take more of a beating than the rebound, so is usually stiffer. More bound will make the curb slamming a real up and down affair. Inverting them puts the softer rate on the up stroke, so it will absorb curbing better. That would also keep it cooler, cuz the shock is not working as hard. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, as I don't really know from personal experience, and have heard this from people who are reputed to be full of ****.
Anyway, spring rates on my 2650 pound integra is 600f/800r with 26mm-F/22mm-R swaybars.
Still pushes a little, but is easy enough to rotate. (A diff might help that.) Daily driven, and painfully so, but sooo worth it when the car is on track.

 

Madhatter - You are totally wrong

BTW It's called compression or bounce not bound.

Peace

 

Thanks for that. Learned something new. Like I said, sources unreliable...

 

ok here's what I know, which I'm sure is not all of the story.

On our double adj shocks we have two settings. One controls how the car handles bumps or curbs (think it's called bump control or bump damping?) and the other is the rebound damping, the one setting that most adj shocks have. Since these shocks are inverted, we always have to reach underneath the car by the wheels to adjust them.

The first setting should basically remain fixed once figured out. All it does is that it makes going over curbs and sharp bumps as seemingless as possible. It mainly controls the upward movement of the spring and suspension components. The bump damping is a setting that varies from car to car. Tom Fowler knows CRXs and that's where we got this setting figured out in the first place. We haven't touched this setting since the shocks were first put on the car.

The second setting is what we always play with and I think it's called rebound damping or just damping. This is what can change the balance of the car from understeer to oversteer. If it is set to stiff, the car will feel as if it leans "less" or as if it has stiffer springs; even though in reality it does not limit the amount of lean - that's what the springs do. You mostly feel it when entering the turn since if it is set to stiff, the shock will not let the car lean "all the way" on entry. Running this setting soft will immediately throw the car into maximum lean right in the entry of the turn. Ideally with a FWD car you want to set the rebound damping so that the front will initially want to lean more on entry of a turn than the back. This will induce more rotation.


[Modified by Hracer, 5:59 PM 9/17/2001]

 

in my SM civic i am running 670f/580r, 26mm bar, weight is 2398 w/o me (2605 w/ me, i'm fat..) 225/45-15's up front, 205/50-15's out back.

 

DaveW- The hefty front (compared to rear) spring makes sense, with the extra weight from the swap. I'd be surprised if the distribution isn't more than 60% front now...


actually the motor swap doesn't add that much weight...only the head is a bit larger, its about 65 lbs diffenece I think.

and I'd actually be very suprised if the distribution was more than 60% front now...because I just corner-weighted it and adjusted it

dw