This weekend at CMP was the first time I have really been bitten the Shultz Curse. The weather was a big surprise though! TWC had been predicting rain all weekend, but all we saw at the track was overcast skies and low 70s. The weather and the 5+ hours of track time per day had me thinking that I would get a lot of shake down time in the car before it makes the ECHC grid later this year. It was not to be. The Shultz Curse struck hard and I only got one good session chasing nc-rsx-s around.

Things started to go bad the first session when I hear a pop and a loud metal dragging sound exiting the carousel. My first thought was I broke the rear sway bar mounts .. again! Limp the car into the pit to find out it was one of the gas tank straps! Doh! Call some Acura dealers, they don't have any. Even it they did, the straps are $100 each. Ouch. Off to the hardware store for some of that pipe hanging stuff. Sit out one session and get the gas tank secured. Things are looking good. I have the one great session chasing Adam.

We go out next time and the brake pedal goes to the floor in the back section of the track. Huh? I was not even close to fading at all. Test the brakes again. They still go to the floor and I smell ATE. Oh oh? Bleeder screw maybe? We just bleed the brakes, so I limp into the pits (again). As I hop out of the car there is some smoke coming out from the front right and there is brake fluid all over the wheel and tire. Grrr. Look a little closer and the ATE and the rubber parts of the caliper are on fire. ****! We dump some water on it and jack up the car to find the piston and rotor completely seized together.



The caliper is not coming off, so I pull off the whole thing to find what looks like the pad had broken in half and the piston ate itself into the rotor. This was about 4pm on Sat and finding an Integra caliper was out of the question. Good thing about CMP is there are 2 Acura dealers close by, but one closes at 1pm and the other, in Charlotte an hour or so away, at 4pm.



We use some fun parts to stop the line from leaking and put the tarp over the car. Big thanks to Ewan, spicyrice, for letting me drive his H1 car on Sunday and for towing my POS back to Atlanta.

It was still a great weekend, even though I still don't have much seat time in the car and now I am just wondering, "what will break next?"

Obligatory Honda-tech pic

 

Were those Hawk Blues? I've never seen that before - nasty.

 

Nice paperweight! That'll be a hell of a conversation piece.

I have a piston with the pad's backing plate welded to it from my ITC days, but it wasn't fused to the rotor like yours....daym!

It looks like you could grind away the melted backing plate where it is has oozed around the inside of the rotor and get them seperated.

 

Sorry man. Looks like a brand new rotor too!
Loosing track time due to technical difficulties

 

this **** sucks.

the more i push the car and myself, the more **** breaks. and it will continue to break. I wont be racing this year, and i'm not tracking the integra anymore - just too much i have to do to keep it together for a weekend.

 

Thats from Moroso off of "racingmysi" 's car... That SOB was pounded off with a 25lbs hammer and 2 broken screw drivers !! Burned like hell!

 

This is actually not uncommon. I've seen it happen several times.

 

Happened to me on my ITE/SPO twin-turborx7 with 6 piston/ducted brakes with AP600 fluid

Cmp reaks on brakes.

 

What is the problem and what needs to be done to avoid it?

Is the plate from the brake manufacturer defective or just plain not enough strong for Hign temp?

Is there too much pressure applied to the plate(from the brake pad) that it folds?

I would like to have more info.....since we are using Hawk blue on a 11" disk on a EK hatch....and we are pushing it very hard

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Francois &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the problem and what needs to be done to avoid it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Too much heat. The backing plate actually gets hot enough that it reaches its yield point. What kind of brake ducts are on the cars in question? &lt;-- Skeptical question
Kirk

 

I hate CMP. I learned years ago about equiptment management at that track. Turns 11-14 serve no purpose but to destroy braking systems.

I hate to say it, but at that track it seems you need to learn what the limits of your braking system are, and drive within those limits.

 

They were an old set of Hawk Blues I was trying to burn up. I think their age was the biggest reason they gave out. The car had no ducting, which would have helped, but I have never ran ducting at CMP. I am still running 1:59-2:03 laptimes, so I am slooooo

 

If you're running around the 2 minute mark and still killing pads you are just plain braking too much.

Duct 'em and carry more speed into the turns young Jedi .

 

Ducting is overrated.. Blues suck.. Just like the set that fell of the backing plate w/ 3/4 of the pad left on them for me..

 

Hmm.. I have never had any problems with my blues. I mean, I lock my brakes some but that is more driver error.

 

Blues are not my first pick as well but they definately are a good pad and they (for me) have worn fairly well in the past. I'd certainly use them as a second option.

 

I'll use them once every other pad is deplted.. VRs, IT- specBs, DS3000, XPs, P+, R4, Ultimates, hell, at least I know they don't fall off the backing plates..

 

I have had good results with the Blues. They were THE pad to have a few years back. I will have to try out the new Cobalts and Carbotechs soon.

 

Holy crap, SPiFF-man. That's some fine metalurgy you've got going on there...

CMP strikes again. Makes me wonder what they've done to the front brakes on the GrandAm GSRs to make them more durable....

 

At least in my case, the "welded" brakes happened because I ran out of pad material 3 1/2 hrs onto a 4 hour race!. The pad backing plate melted and fused to the piston due to hard contact with the rotor while braking. Spiff, perhaps you ran out of material, or the bonding gave up on the material, and you were stopping with backing plate/rotor contact.

 

I know you'r problem. you put the wheel meant for the right rear, on your right front. it's marked right on there. "RR".

 

I never had a problem w/ Blues at CMP, but ITR brakes are bigger. No ducting here either.

Not my pad of choice anymore, but they are reliable if you keep them in the right operating temp. If you overheat them, the pad can delaminate, and something like this can occur. I'll bet the pad material came off first, and then this was the result of using the backing plate as your pad.

Warren

 

What kind of pads are you guys using? I am not going to use some pad just because they sponsor our series. I mean, one guy has a story about their pad coming apart and then a bunch of people say all the pads suck. Uhh... anyone here heard a story or two about Carbotech pads? I damn sure have. And no offense to Cobalt but Andie does not have a brake pad factory in his back yard that I know of. He is just rebranding some commonly manufactured pad. Again, I am not badmouthing anyone. I would be interested in investigating other compounds if there is a compelling reason other than hopping on a bandwagon.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> He is just rebranding some commonly manufactured pad. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No he isnt...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Again, I am not badmouthing anyone. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, you are

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I would be interested in investigating other compounds if there is a compelling reason other than hopping on a bandwagon.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Who's got the bandwagon? I didnt see one...

 

Chris, IMVHO, they are all good ... and any single one set of the good could be bad. Yes, if you keep your ear to the ground enough, you'll hear a slant for/against any single one (probably the same thing with shocks, springs, anything). Because Blues were inconsistent for some folks a couple years ago, are they a bad pad? IMO no. Because some have had issue with Carbotech in the past are they a bad pad? IMO no. Because Cobalt does/doesn't manufacture their own pads is that a bad pad? IMO no. There is an upside to any suggested downside in the who/how/why/where about these pads - we could pull 'em out our butts til H-T goes down. As for me, I don't run any of these mentioned pads - not for any single reason but I have found something that works for ME at the price that is right for ME. The whole of the brake pad wars thing here IMO is not worth our time here - they are all good pads, just like Honda is a good car even though they occasionally make a lemon. Major thumbs up to Carbotech AND Cobalt AND BSR AND Essex and anyone else that supplies us with 'the good stuff.'