https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2271365

TIA!

 

I read all the posts... The only question I have is why the hell are you running 87 octane?????

 

You are supposed to use at least 91...


My crx had high nox. set timing to 18 degrees and added 5 pints of 90% alcohol to 3/4 tank of gas. 91 octane. I also had a new cat installed.. Then it passed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by akandok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read all the posts... The only question I have is why the hell are you running 87 octane?????</TD></TR></TABLE>

Heh didn't realize I shoulda explained myself...

I only run 90 octane on a regular basis, but then again I havent driven my car long enough to have a regular basis... anyways, I spoke to thesmogman on H-T who recommended I try retarding the timing and running a lower octane gas to try to lower the combustion temperatures... I only put in like $5, I'm back to 90 again but still stuck in this vortex we call emissions

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by akandok &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My crx had high nox. set timing to 18 degrees and added 5 pints of 90% alcohol to 3/4 tank of gas. 91 octane. I also had a new cat installed.. Then it passed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did your CRX have high water temps as well? I've read the 100s of posts on people having high NOx, but I think my situation seems to be isolated and unique. I've tried pretty much all the "cheats" to try to pass AirCare other than poisoning my new motor with additives and junk like that... which I really don't want to do. There's something definitely "wrong" with my setup right now that makes me believe that the typical "cheats" that pass emissions won't suffice I've thought about running alcohol like you mentioned, or methanol, but I've read in the racing forum that people run methanol in race motors when they cannot achieve high enough temperatures for optimum performance, so they add methanol to increase the temperatures. Which makes me think that adding that is counter productive in my battle against NOx... or am I way outta left field here?

Right now my motors sitting at a 5 degree retard with no thermostat, which has gotten the #'s as low as possible, 1.84 on NOx which dropped from 2.1, but still no cigar... I don't think I can really retard any further without going over in HC. I upped the fuel pressure to 46 psi to richen the mixture... but being the skepticist that I am I still doubt I'm there...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPD DMN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Heh didn't realize I shoulda explained myself...

I only run 90 octane on a regular basis, but then again I havent driven my car long enough to have a regular basis... anyways, I spoke to thesmogman on H-T who recommended I try retarding the timing and running a lower octane gas to try to lower the combustion temperatures... I only put in like $5, I'm back to 90 again but still stuck in this vortex we call emissions

Did your CRX have high water temps as well? I've read the 100s of posts on people having high NOx, but I think my situation seems to be isolated and unique. I've tried pretty much all the "cheats" to try to pass AirCare other than poisoning my new motor with additives and junk like that... which I really don't want to do. There's something definitely "wrong" with my setup right now that makes me believe that the typical "cheats" that pass emissions won't suffice I've thought about running alcohol like you mentioned, or methanol, but I've read in the racing forum that people run methanol in race motors when they cannot achieve high enough temperatures for optimum performance, so they add methanol to increase the temperatures. Which makes me think that adding that is counter productive in my battle against NOx... or am I way outta left field here?

Right now my motors sitting at a 5 degree retard with no thermostat, which has gotten the #'s as low as possible, 1.84 on NOx which dropped from 2.1, but still no cigar... I don't think I can really retard any further without going over in HC. I upped the fuel pressure to 46 psi to richen the mixture... but being the skepticist that I am I still doubt I'm there...</TD></TR></TABLE>

My old EG blew out over 4k on the NOx. I took it many places and talked to many people and I was finally told I had a "lazy" O2 sensor. (Ya idk wtf that is either) Long story short, I replaced it and it passed.

Worst case scenario just bolt on some srs cat. Maybe even 2 of them. 2 Cats will solve your problem for sure.

 

I dont think you should run 87 octane though. 87 octane is actually more flammable then 91. It has do to with the mixture of gas I guess.

 

I dont know who the "smogman" is but I guess you can call yourself any thing on here. Anyhoo running a lower octane will likely increase your nox count if you have a high C/R (didnt bother reading your whole post.) Even if you retard the timing the lower octane fuel is more prone to preignition and detonation which will drasticly increase combustion temps which inturn will increase NOX

 

I've read up on o2 sensors and some sensors being lazy and oxygen biased... I don't think my o2 sensor is lazy since the HC and CO numbers are great (or good at the least). Unless someone can clarify that for me... i

I have thought about running 2 cats, but that will require modification of the stock unit I'm running now. I'm already running a stock GSR cat and stock GSR midpipe, I'd have to chop and weld some more to fit 2 cats on just to pass emissions. Then, considering I do pass with 2 cats, I'd have a new problem of having 2 cats and trying to reweld and reattach it properly back to 1 cat or a test pipe... sounds like way too much work... and it doesn't really "fix" my issue as far as running high NOx and running high temps... like before, I'm not really looking for a "cheat" or "hack" way of passing emissions, I also want a healthy running motor which doesn't seem to be the case right now...

I was hesitant to even pump the 87 into my car because of fear of knocking, that's why i only did $5 worth so if it didn't pass (which it didn't), i'd be able to burn it outta the system in no time, which has already been done. I'm only running 90+ octane now...

I ran into thesmogman from doing all the research about NOx and emissions. It seems like hes the most knowledgable in the area, and hes an emissions tester in Texas I think... regardless, hes had buncha hybrid motors, and he brings them all to his emissions center and does tests on them to see what helps emissions and what does not... so I figure his expertise and opinion could help, which it did but not enough there's definitely something more than just having high NOx, its stemming from a problem somewhere...

It makes sense when you mention a lower octane, because detonation does cause much much higher compression temperatures, I read that a few days ago so definitely wont be running 87 anymore. I have run almost all the octanes we have here, 92-90-89-97 and neither of them have shown really a significant change in NOx. I think the 5 degree retard and the removal of the thermostat has decreased the NOx levels the most, but it raised my HC.

I shouldn't have a much higher CR since I'm running a stock rebuilt b16, stock headgasket, gsr head. So CR is slightly higher, but, enough to raise temps that much?! I'm thinking I'm running lean, so I've upped the fuel pressure to about 46psi with vaccuum connected, 56psi with vaccuum disconnected, but stilll no drop in temps, but it may help NOx.

What do you guys think?

Thnx again everyone!