Hey All,

This has been a looooooooooooooong, drawn out ordeal for me and I'm about to drive my car off a cliff... well not really but I'm about to jump off a cliff if I can't figure this out...

History & more info about my problem -> https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2256475 (warning - long read but detailed info on my issue and troubleshooting)

I've been through emissions testing (called AirCare here in Vancouver Canada) 4 times now... failed everyone single one on NOx. Each time I've tried different things and have successfully lowered NOx, but not enough to pass. Again, read the above link for more details on my special issue

Here is my latest attempt at AirCare, this is with a 2 degree spark retard, GSR stock cat, chipped p28 running a stock b16 program on 87 octane... the way we test emissions here is a sniffer is put on the exhaust, and the tester drives my car while watching a monitor with a speed line, and he has to keep the car's speed within the line. The line is suppose to mimic a real driving scenario (ie - city speed, freeway speed, accelerating/decelerating etc). I have superimposed the trace of the test onto my results for ease of viewing, so you can see where the spiking occurs and what speed it is occuring at.

Results:


Trace Report: (HC & CO)


Trace Report: (NOx & CO2)



Legend:

- black solid line = my vehicle reading
- blue dotted line = driving test speed line (as described above)
- green solid line = threshold limit

So the blue dotted line is the line that the driver watches when they drive my car, as you can see it has a series of accelerations, decelerations, stops, city speeds (50km/h) and freeway speeds (100km/h). My car doesn't do an idle test. If you notice in the NOx section, my HUGE spiking seems to occur during acceleration, ESPECIALLY in the freeway speed section (60-100km/h area).

My HC chart is a bit sporadic as well, not as bad as NOx, but you can see that there is a large spike in the freeway speed section as well... I did pass HC, but it is uncomfortably close to the limit

My CO chart is SIGNIFICANTLY low, even lower than the average test results of CO (avg = 5.65, my result = 0.52). I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it must mean something! I am WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY under the limit and average on CO

Again, I've done enough research on emissions, lowering combustion temps, blah blah etc, enough research for 2 lifetimes and I'm still stumped... I'm hoping someone is a pro emissions specialist and can decipher the trace report above and point me in a direction to lower NOx.

TIA!

 

Run stock p30 ECU with O2 sensor so it can run closed loop, or tune your air fuel ratio to around 14.7-15.0 on cruising so it will allow the CAT to work properly. Anything leaner than 15+ will cause major NOx emissions and internal combustion temp of more than 2500 degree F will greatly elevate NOx emissions as well. Also remember to run the correct spark plug heat range and gap them correctly. Run octane 91 or whatever you guys have above 90 to avoid detonation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dude_123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Run stock p30 ECU with O2 sensor so it can run closed loop.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a p30 ECU


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dude_123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">or tune your air fuel ratio to around 14.7-15.0 on cruising so it will allow the CAT to work properly. Anything leaner than 15+ will cause major NOx emissions and internal combustion temp of more than 2500 degree F will greatly elevate NOx emissions as well. Also remember to run the correct spark plug heat range and gap them correctly. Run octane 91 or whatever you guys have above 90 to avoid detonation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm leaning (no pun intended) towards the issue being my afr, since many people have mentioned I have a lot of induction side mods (cai, gsr tb, blox IM), as well as bigger cams (jdm itr), so some believe my fuel side of things aren't up to par. I did pop in an adjustable FPR and FPG, I've knocked it up to 46psi but not sure if this is enough to solve the problem. I don't see any drops in temps, but drops in NOx is a possibility...

I'm running plugs 1 step colder at the moment, which should help combustion temps, I am running 90 octane, but have run 92 through emissions which didn't help, but 90 should suffice for my setup.

The thing about tuning my motor is, I don't want to spend the money to tune the motor for efficiency, then have to tune the motor for max performance... my motor should pass with moderate tuning don't you think? My setup can't be THAT off to cause my messed up situation, do you think?

 

Unfortunately, your going to have to revert to a stock program, just for the test. p30 is best, however the stock Ecu might throw a slew of codes after its installed on the modified motor. Trust me Man, i was in a very similar situation, except i had to deal with OBDII restrictions. Have you had your car professionally tuned? A proper tune will make your engine run cleaner, and likely produce even more power. A better fuel map could solve all your problems? Also, are you running a cat?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ice78transam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unfortunately, your going to have to revert to a stock program, just for the test. p30 is best, however the stock Ecu might throw a slew of codes after its installed on the modified motor. Trust me Man, i was in a very similar situation, except i had to deal with OBDII restrictions. Have you had your car professionally tuned? A proper tune will make your engine run cleaner, and likely produce even more power. A better fuel map could solve all your problems? Also, are you running a cat?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll have to see if anyone will let me borrow a p30 ecu for the test, not a lot of my friends around here are into the car scene so not sure if I can find a p30 or p72 ecu to run... I'll def try that though its a good idea

Car is not tuned, running a chipped p28 stock b16 program. I definitely want to get a tune in eventually but at this moment it will be difficult.

Stock GSR cat yes

 

Ok, Well I'm thinking that as long as you have a Cat, and its functioning properly, your fuel map is just way out of whack as power is applied. The only cure all, sorry to say is going to be a good (or even rough) tune. Thinking about the stock ECU again, it'll probably do you no good because as soon as you plug it in and go for a drive, the check engine light will light up which is as good as a failure. Sorry to say, time for a tune bro. On the bright side it'll run better and the gas bill will be lesser if you can keep your foot off the floor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ice78transam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, Well I'm thinking that as long as you have a Cat, and its functioning properly, your fuel map is just way out of whack as power is applied. The only cure all, sorry to say is going to be a good (or even rough) tune. Thinking about the stock ECU again, it'll probably do you no good because as soon as you plug it in and go for a drive, the check engine light will light up which is as good as a failure. Sorry to say, time for a tune bro. On the bright side it'll run better and the gas bill will be lesser if you can keep your foot off the floor</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cat should be fine, it was intact when we put it in, it significantly lowered my HC/CO/NOx when I ran a test pipe, and it doesnt stink like rotten eggs...

The CEL isnt an issue for our tests. They just drive ur car and print the results... I had a CEL for my old motor forever and they never cared You think the p30/p72 is a good idea still?

I'm probably going to have to get it tuned now since I'm running out of options Might as well get a new rad too

 

You could try the ECU but there is a chance you'll just waste your money like I did. Of course my OBD-2a swap called for the rarest ECU ever, the 1996-1997 USDM Del Sol DOHC VTEC. Hindsight being twenty-twenty, i would have raher just had my car fixed professionally, or in your case tuned and gotten 100% results. And the extra power, drivability and reliability will make it all seem worth it in the end. Good Luck beating THE MAN!

 

Put the stock ECU on and leave it on. "Chipping" is pure crap. Besides smog, those emissions numbers are telling you that your tune is crap.

Run 91 octane to help bring the NOx down a bit. Make sure your ignition timing has the red line lined up to the pointer on the timing belt cover.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ice78transam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could try the ECU but there is a chance you'll just waste your money like I did. Of course my OBD-2a swap called for the rarest ECU ever, the 1996-1997 USDM Del Sol DOHC VTEC. Hindsight being twenty-twenty, i would have raher just had my car fixed professionally, or in your case tuned and gotten 100% results. And the extra power, drivability and reliability will make it all seem worth it in the end. Good Luck beating THE MAN!</TD></TR></TABLE>


I might try it if all else fails, but I may have to resort to getting the motor tuned properly... guess thats not such a bad thing after all


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by baller status &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put the stock ECU on and leave it on. "Chipping" is pure crap. Besides smog, those emissions numbers are telling you that your tune is crap.

Run 91 octane to help bring the NOx down a bit. Make sure your ignition timing has the red line lined up to the pointer on the timing belt cover.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I have to run a chipped ecu since im running a p28

I'll be running 90+ octane for sure, but it didn't help much last time. Ignition timing has been put back to spec.