I plastigauged the mains with acl's and I got .001 all across which is in the tighter side of specs. The block stamp is DDCDC and crank #'s are all 2 so that would be brown,brown,green,brown,green...right? If acl's a greens then why am are they too tight for the mains asking for brown? Should I leave it the way it is or go looser say .0015?

 

any advise?

 

I've run clearances that tight before without an issue, but I ran an extensive break in procedure to be sure it wouldn't go. I feel alot more comfortable with .0015, and have ripped on those motors after a few heat cycles without any issues.

Did you try plastigauging beneath the crank instead of on top? Wondering if maybe the block needs line honed or there is some distortion playing a role. Obviously, truly mic'ing everything would make things more clear.

I wouldn't run .0010 again personally...to much worry for me.

 

I am going to have to go with smaller bearings then. I have a feeling that it would be fine with those clearances but I am starting to worry about it so I might as well go looser to make myself feel better.

 

i would honestly get as close to .002 as possible. Because those stock specs were meant for an application that wasnt dealing with the heat that a turbo app. will make. Also if you dont want to run .002 across the board, do me a favor and at least run it on the main closest to the flywheel. The heat from the flywheel can cause even more excess swelling in the crank, so you may want to take that into consideration.

 

If I were to run the .002 clearance on the mains would I need to run thicker oil? This will be daily driven as well with occasional track time so I would need it to last as long as possible.

 

bump for a good thread, I would like to read some more answers. Why run thicker oil with tighter clearances? sorry if thats a noob question, im just wanting to learn more about bottom end building.

 

People will say you'll want to run thicker oil, but its not a good idea. The stock specs are for a motor that will make half the torque and last a good 150k miles w/o issues.

I'd try getting the next size larger OEM bearings and using one half of those with the ACL, or just bite the bullet and go all-OEM. People have mixed them before, but its really hard to say that it will or will not work. Worst case your oil pump will shatter (moving crank centerline messes up that gear's clearances), but that happens only when you line-bore the block and move the crank centerline a large amount.

 

Nah...I've gone .0030 on motors before with stock viscosity oil. They aren't going to last as long as a tighter motor will, but if you want to straight rip it out of the box .0025+ is not uncommon for road race setups that go with no break-in.

I generally always build for .0015. All of Endyn's builds hit that number, so back in the day when I frequented TOO's forums, I adopted that number and stuck with it. To date I've never had an issue with .0015 on N/A or FI motors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd try getting the next size larger OEM bearings and using one half of those with the ACL, or just bite the bullet and go all-OEM. People have mixed them before, but its really hard to say that it will or will not work. Worst case your oil pump will shatter (moving crank centerline messes up that gear's clearances), but that happens only when you line-bore the block and move the crank centerline a large amount.</TD></TR></TABLE>\
By mixing them you mean one half acl and another oem? How much would that affect the centerline of that crank?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by champLSinteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">\
By mixing them you mean one half acl and another oem? How much would that affect the centerline of that crank?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not sure I would mix half ACL and half OEM. I do that all the time for customer's block with all OEM. But again, I'll never touched an ACL or one size bearings...

What I usually do is start with whatever the color calls for based on the code and work your way from there. If you have green/green, you'll go green/yellow, yellow/yellow and etc..I'd never mix green and pink, you'd want to work your way up or down, half color at a time...

Stan

 

Based on the block and crank I need 3 mains with brown and 2 with green. I just didnt see how the clearance was still too tight using acl (green) instead of the brown. I have a type r block and using an ls crank, i dont know if that makes any difference. So should I check the clearance using one green half and one yellow?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by champLSinteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Based on the block and crank I need 3 mains with brown and 2 with green. I just didnt see how the clearance was still too tight using acl (green) instead of the brown. I have a type r block and using an ls crank, i dont know if that makes any difference. So should I check the clearance using one green half and one yellow?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My advise is take everything out, clean everything thoroughly again. You may want to wipe the bearing once again.

CHECK your room temp, make sure it;s around 70-75 degree...

If everything is good, then try again...I usually check the clearance 3 times before I am happy..

If it's still off, then work your way down using a thinner bearing..up or left on the bearing chart...one color at a time...don't jump from black to red, but rather one step at a time until you get it right..

It may take you 5-6 times till you get it right, but eiter way, do it the right way..

Stan

 

I have checked it about 5 times already just to make sure what I was getting was right. I threw in a yellow instead of the green it asks for and it gave me .0015 which is where I want to be. I only have one set of yellows so I am going to use it to check the others. Since I have torqued it down quite a few times already I am worried the bolts are stretching too much. Would I be fine to keep them after I get the clearances I need?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by champLSinteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have checked it about 5 times already just to make sure what I was getting was right. I threw in a yellow instead of the green it asks for and it gave me .0015 which is where I want to be. I only have one set of yellows so I am going to use it to check the others. Since I have torqued it down quite a few times already I am worried the bolts are stretching too much. Would I be fine to keep them after I get the clearances I need?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, that will be fine...

 

acl's are not always green

 

I thought acl was pretty accurate on the bearing size and that they matched up with oem green.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by champLSinteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought acl was pretty accurate on the bearing size and that they matched up with oem green.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They're somewhere between green and yellow. Even if you have a pink or red bearing based on the chart, using ACL still gives you the acceptable range of .0009 to .0021, which IMO is a big *** range..

Why settle for "acceptable" ?

I aim for .0015 all the way accross..

stan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flamenco-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why settle for "acceptable" ?

I aim for .0015 all the way accross..

stan</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well since no one has ever done any definitive research comparing bearing clearance to engine longevity, I don't see how anyone can take a firm stance on either side of the issue. I personally disregard any of the filth that Charlatan Widmer spews from his mouth.

As for me - I'm running .0018 mains w/ 10w40 oil. I figure the thicker oil is better, but again, who knows - there hasn't been any definitive research (that I've seen) that clarifies the bearing clearance controversy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by champLSinteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since I have torqued it down quite a few times already I am worried the bolts are stretching too much. Would I be fine to keep them after I get the clearances I need?</TD></TR></TABLE>

As long as the rod bolts aren't stretched beyond the yeild point, then they will return to original length for the mostpart. Either way, tensile strength won't be compromised.

 

I am worried about the main bolts. I have not yet done the rods. Looks like I will have to go oem for all of my bearings. I was wondering about the K-series main bearings because they are much cheaper. Has anyone used them?

 

i have a ball anvil micrometer and i usually meausre the thickness of every bearing i install.

most acl race bearings are 0.0787 inches thick or very close to it. coated bearings are a little thicker, around 0.0790

clevite mains are normally a good bit thinner, around 0.0783ish (but there is alot of variance in the clevites, i have seen some as thin at 0.0779, some as thick at 0.0788... thats why i measure the bearing itself)

according to Earl's honda bearing thickness chart that puts an acl race around a yellow or pink, a coated acl around a black or brown.

while im at it... acl race rod bearings usually come out around 0.0591 (honda brown) and acl coated come out around 0.0593-4 (honda black or blue)