londonsupra

So i took my accord to a shop yesterday and to get my ac working i need a condensor.. thats fine.. i will just get one off ebay or whatever..

the question is how hard is this to change? would you guys suggest bumper removale?
I have never taken off my stock bumper before whats the safest way to do so?

Thanks

Ross 2.0

Temporarily remove the radiator reservoir tank and
intake tube, then remove the suction hose bracket.

Remove the front grille.

Disconnect the connector from the radiator fan
motor, remove the mounting bolts (4) and remove
the radiator fan shroud.

Disconnect the connectors from the condenser fan
motor, remove the connector from the compressor.
Remove the mounting bolts (3) and remove the condenser
fan shroud.
CAUTION: Do not damage the radiator fins when
removing the fan shroud.

Remove the radiator upper mount brackets.

Disconnect the condenser line and discharge line
from the condenser.
CAUTION: Cap the open fittings immediately to
keep moisture and dirt out of system.

Remove the mounting nuts (2) and condenser.
NOTE: Do not damage the radiator and condenser
fins when removing the condenser.
Be careful not to drop the mounting nuts.

Install in the reverse order of removal, and;
Do not damage the radiator and condenser.
Replace O-rings with new ones at the line
joints.
Charge the system and do the performance
test .

you may want to consider a R-134A conversion as well

CB7VTEC

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooGoCow3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...you may want to consider a R-134A conversion as well</TD></TR></TABLE>

I almost converted when I re-sealed my compressor, but the A/C is so much colder with R12 compared to R134a that only thing that would make me want to convert now that my A/C is up and running again is the cost per pound of R12. If you have a known slow leak, then you know a recharge at least once a year is inevitable. R134a may be a good choice.

Ross 2.0

my civic is 134-A and my Accord is still R-12 both of them cool to about 43 degrees F . So saying 134-a doesn't cool good is a load of crap. r-12 does cool down faster from being hot but that's about the only performance difference

londonsupra

thanks moo for providing proper information.

CB7VTEC

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooGoCow3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my civic is 134-A and my Accord is still R-12 both of them cool to about 43 degrees F</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK correct me if I'm wrong, but your civic came with r134 starting in 94 right? So that's 2 cars, both with systems designed to reach that temp using oil their systems were designed for. Keep in mind we are talking retrofit here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooGoCow3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...So saying 134-a doesn't cool good is a load of crap... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe coming from your crap chute. The fact is I never said R134 didn't cool good. If I thought someone was gonna bust my *** over phrase technicality I would have been more specific. R12 cools better. It's a PROVEN FACT, whether the loss of efficiency is 5% or 15%, assuming the retrofit is even done correctly. Now lets digress, https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1664363 Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooGoCow3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...r-12 does cool down faster from being hot but that's about the only performance difference</TD></TR></TABLE>

Isn't that part of the point? I would hope most people if given a choice would prefer the cabin temp drop faster, especially in hot weather, but I guess that all depends on your climate. Maybe I was just too vague in my point or when I said the A/C is so much colder in comparison, sorry, so let me clarify. If your keeping the car for a while, you need to make your own call on whether you think the price of R12 outweighs the total price of a retrofit including the price of R134, relative to the age/condition of the car. Chances are on 15 year old car it's only going to be less and less cost effective.

Honda-Master

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooGoCow3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my civic is 134-A and my Accord is still R-12 both of them cool to about 43 degrees F . So saying 134-a doesn't cool good is a load of crap. r-12 does cool down faster from being hot but that's about the only performance difference</TD></TR></TABLE>

yo moo.. if you retrofit r12 to r134a.. first of all.. it DOES NOT cool as efficiently.. 4-5 degree difference in cooling.. secondly,, eventually all the 0 rings wil start to leak. some of the older compressor 86-89 keihins cannot handle the raise in pressure and will start to leak from the front seal..
I have seen it happen far too may times ..

Ross 2.0

Then i should bring into the mix my 81 volvo that i retrofitted to 134-A back in 2000. It cooled much better with no new parts, not the first o-ring or compressor oil change. And till it burned to the ground in 2004 it worked great. It's still the same system. it even had the same style expansion valve that Honda has gone to now. You can't tell me what a piece of paper says. I prove things for myself. Also just so happens I work on them every day.

YeuEmMaiMai

Hold up guys

1. R134a has only about 90% of the cooling capacity of r12. This is fact.

2. R134a has far less cooling reverse capacity than r12 does. If your charge goes down by even 1/3 of a can, you will notice it. This is fact

3. Using r134a in older accords will have adverse affects on cooling performance since the A/C units are fairy small on those cars so if you live somewhere really hot you may be dissapointed in cooling performance.

4. You can only charge r134a to 90% of r12 capacity due to higer operating temps/pressures

5. R134a cannot be compressed into a gas when it's temprature exceedes 214 degrees F versus 234 for r12


Modified by YeuEmMaiMai at 8:47 PM 6/29/2006

EASY101

I live in florida, the temps in the area right now are in the high 80's with high humidity. Its hot as hell here. I just had my honda retro fitted with 134a, I cant tell the difference in coldness to be honest with you guys...and if I cant tell the difference in coldness without experimenting with thermometers and such I dont see the point in arguing which is better. These days 134a freon is cheaper than R 12 if I'm not mistaken, and 134a is better for the enviroment especially if you have a system that leaks. If Its feasible for someone to convert their system then I say its probably the way to go. thats just my opinion

Ross 2.0

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EASY101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I live in florida, the temps in the area right now are in the high 80's with high humidity. Its hot as hell here. I just had my honda retro fitted with 134a, I cant tell the difference in coldness to be honest with you guys...and if I cant tell the difference in coldness without experimenting with thermometers and such I dont see the point in arguing which is better. These days 134a freon is cheaper than R 12 if I'm not mistaken, and 134a is better for the enviroment especially if you have a system that leaks. If Its feasible for someone to convert their system then I say its probably the way to go. thats just my opinion </TD></TR></TABLE>

CB7VTEC

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MooGoCow3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can't tell me what a piece of paper says. I prove things for myself. Also just so happens I work on them every day.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I admire your ambition. I could also say the same, your not the only one who works at Honda.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EASY101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If Its feasible for someone to convert their system then I say its probably the way to go. thats just my opinion</TD></TR></TABLE>

Feasible is the key word here, as it may not be for a lot of people. Hell, if you have the money and you know your car is cherry enough to last through the last remaining stockpiles of R12, then R134 is the obvious choice because of future costs. For those with the average 150,000+ mile old-*** daily driver who don't have any sort of parts hook up, it's just my opinion that you keep the R12 until you start having problems. It all depends on the circumstances.

Chiovnidca

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda-Master &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">some of the older compressor 86-89 keihins cannot handle the raise in pressure and will start to leak from the front seal..
I have seen it happen far too may times .. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That just may be why Honda doesn't reccomend converting the keihins to 134a?

Chiovnidca

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EASY101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Its hot as hell here. I just had my honda retro fitted with 134a, I cant tell the difference in coldness to be honest with you guys...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most people cant. Probably because the difference isn't as big as some people say.

Chiovnidca

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CB7VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Feasible is the key word here, as it may not be for a lot of people. Hell, if you have the money and you know your car is cherry enough to last through the last remaining stockpiles of R12,</TD></TR></TABLE>
The stockpile would have been used up years ago. $35-$40 for a twelve ounce can? They'll keep sneaking it into the country for a long time for that money.

CB7VTEC

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chiovnidca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The stockpile would have been used up years ago. $35-$40 for a twelve ounce can? They'll keep sneaking it into the country for a long time for that money. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Most dealers are still able to purchase R12 in the 30 lb. cylinders for a hefty price . The vendor we go through still has a pretty good stockpile.

Chiovnidca

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CB7VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most dealers are still able to purchase R12 in the 30 lb. cylinders for a hefty price . The vendor we go through still has a pretty good stockpile.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Our parts manager will only buy it by the can. I have a pretty good stockpile myself.

19dabeast85

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hold up guys

1. R134a has only about 90% of the cooling capacity of r12. This is fact.

2. R134a has far less cooling reverse capacity than r12 does. If your charge goes down by even 1/3 of a can, you will notice it. This is fact

3. Using r134a in older accords will have adverse affects on cooling performance since the A/C units are fairy small on those cars so if you live somewhere really hot you may be dissapointed in cooling performance.

4. You can only charge r134a to 90% of r12 capacity due to higer operating temps/pressures

5. R134a cannot be compressed into a gas when it's temprature exceedes 214 degrees F versus 234 for r12


Modified by YeuEmMaiMai at 8:47 PM 6/29/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is right on hard facts. To add, R134a is a smaller particulate than R12 and thus why SOME systems will leak when retrofitted. The reason why retrofits don't cool as well as new ones is because R134a requires a larger condensor than R12 (because of the 90% cooling capacity). And yes, on very hot days, R134a simply will not cool as fast as R12 because it is not as efficient. However, if you install a larger condensor, I'm sure the difference will be minimal.

Ross 2.0

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CB7VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I admire your ambition. I could also say the same, your not the only one who works at Honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>
atleast we agree on something