It's that time of year again.
Unless you got a garage queen, mid-west and east coast folks know what i'm talking about. Getting ready to switch out the fresh wheels with sticky rubber for beater wheels with winter tires.
I moved from NY (I thought we had it bad) to MI where you can't survive without winter tires.

Which studless winter tires would be best bang-for-buck?
How many winters do they last? (we get about 5-6 months of winter here)
I'm looking for some decent winter tires with good treadlife 15" tires for my 95 civic.

any input/experience would be appreciated.

 

First, since we're coming up on fall and people may be thinking about winter tires, I'd like to quote myself, just to provide a bit of background on winter tires before I answer your specific questions (and I realize from your post this is stuff you already know, doubleshotz):

Now, on to your questions:

How many winters they last depends on how many miles you drive each winter. It also depends on how far down you drive them. Some winter tires come with a slightly deeper tread than summer or all-season tires (12/32" or 13/32" of tread depth, vs 10/32" or 11/32" typical of other tires). However, winter tires lose their effectiveness on snow and ice at a point where they still have more tread than summer tires you would probably keep using. When your winter tires have, say, 4/32" of tread, they're not going to be all that great on snow. Furthermore, some tires like the Bridgestone Blizzak have a special multi-cell compound on the outer 55 percent of the tread which acts like a sponge to soak up water and give better grip on ice, but you'll lose this advantage once you've used up 55 percent of the tread. Bottom line, there's no standard answer regarding how many winters your winter tires will last. I think it's reasonable to expect at least 15K miles from a set, but more than that will depend on these other variables.

I also seriously doubt that you really need to use winter tires for 5-6 months in Michigan. I live in Chicago and I usually put my winter tires on roughly the second week in December, and take them off roughly the second week in March. Granted, I have a garage and a jack, so I can swap them back and forth in a pinch; if I didn't, though, I might extend the season when I use them but only by a couple of weeks in either direction. Detroit has the same climate as Chicago, so you're still looking at 3 months of winter tires, maybe 4 at the outside if you can't swap them yourself. That's also going to hold true pretty much throughout the lower peninsula. If you're in the UP, maybe in Marquette (?), then you might need to go for 5-6 months, but not in the LP.

For your '95 Civic, if you have your original wheels (which were probably 13" or 14"), they would be fine for winter tires. Remember, with winter tires, narrower is better. Frankly, I'm not sure what size winter tires would fit a 15" wheel on your car. Normally, your car would take 195/50-15, but I'm not finding any winter tires in that size on the Tire Rack website. I know there are choices for you in the right 13" size (175/70-13) and 14" size (185/60-14) though. So even though you asked which one is best, I'm not sure if there are any that even fit, unless you'd consider going back to your stock wheels, or maybe buying a set of 14" steelies for your winter tires ($152 for the set at the Tire Rack). You might want to give the folks at the Tire Rack a call and discuss it with them.

 

Ken, might I also recommend this:

Seeing as it looks like you need different rims as well....look in the local classifieds. Used winter tires start to appear in local classifieds about this time of year, at least up here. You can get some amazing deals, you can also get screwed over if you don't know what you are looking for.

You can probably find a set of slightly used winter tires already mounted on 14" rims to fit your car super cheap. Just look hard and long enough. Just make sure they are a good model of tire, that they are slightly used (ie. a few thousand miles at the most), and the rims fit your car (bolt pattern, offset, bore size)

Don't get suckered into buying used tires that have had their useful life wasted away. Winter tires are more or less useless after 50% or so of their tread is gone, it's not like summer tires where you can ride them to the wear indicators.

If you look hard enough, start looking early, and ask questions here you can save a good amount of money.

For example; a couple of years ago I found a set of tires for my civic for $150, they had only about 1500mi on them. Based on Canadian tire prices that was a very good deal.


This is just another option for you to consider.

Lastly; Ken you didn't mention the Revo1, I don't know how go it is in comparison to the others but I know that currently my mom is loving those on her Versa.

Cheers!

 

Thanks for the detailed input nsxtasy,
I would really like to keep the 15" beater wheels (15x6), since they I've planned to use them for winter. As far as tire size, I was thinking 185/55/15 but it sounds like I'm gonna have to raise the car 4x4 style, which I don't mind if they fit.

Believe it or not, last year was not so pretty. The snow storm hit late October, and didn't stop until March. I drive back and forth from central to south-west Michigan 4 days a week (about 2-3hrs depending on weather), mostly highway driving.

Do you have any experience with Blizzak WS-50?
I would pick up any tires without hesitating if they would last 4-5 MI winters.
I've looked through Tire Rack's line-up and was looking for personal experience/reviews since we all drive similar cars.

 

old man neri,
I understand wide<narrow for traction in winter weather, but do wheel size matter (other than fittement issues)?
I'm starting to regret selling my steelies......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doubleshotz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">old man neri,
I understand wide&lt;narrow for traction in winter weather, but do wheel size matter (other than fittement issues)?
I'm starting to regret selling my steelies......</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, a smaller wheel usually means a narrower tire but not enough to really matter.

You say you have 15" rims? are they steel junkers or are they nice rims? If you plan on using the same rims year round consider the harsh effects that the salt will have on the rims and also consider the added costs of having to mount tires twice a year.

Picking a rim size, if you are going to get different rims, should be based on the cost and availability of the tires you want. You want a rim that will offer you a wide selection of tires and at low cost. For me, it was 14" but that is slowly starting to change.

 

You also might find rims and tires separately. 13" and 14" wheels that came stock on Civics and Integras - many of which were steelies (sometimes with plastick wheel covers) - should fit fine, and are plentiful in the used market, like in the marketplace forums and on eBay.

Edited to add.

Actually, that should be a good size for your car. They're not that much bigger; they would only raise your car up by about 0.2 inch, which ain't much. That's less than the amount of ride height your car gains when you replace worn tires with new ones, and you probably don't notice any difference in height when you do that, either.

The Tire Rack shows two tires in that size, the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 "Performance Winter" tire, and the Michelin X-Ice "Studless Winter" tire. Both are excellent in their categories.

October is exceptionally early for snow in the LP. For example, the historical average snowfall in the entire month of October in Detroit is 0.2 inches (ref), which likely consists of a single four-inch snowstorm once every twenty years. Even November averages only 2.5 inches for the entire month.

Also, you can play it by ear, wait until there's a significant snowstorm in the forecast, and then put your winter tires on. Usually, it won't be till late November at the earliest.

I used the Blizzak MZ-02 for many (~10) years; the MZ-02 was the predecessor of the WS-50. It was excellent in winter. So is our current Michelin Arctic Alpin (predecessor of the X-Ice).

If you drive 1-2K miles per winter, they'll last longer than that. If you drive 8-10K miles per winter, they won't.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You say you have 15" rims? are they steel junkers or are they nice rims?</TD></TR></TABLE>
These are OEM alloys (15x6 +45), using only for winter.
I have another set for summer which I swap out in my parking lot.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you drive 1-2K miles per winter, they'll last longer than that. If you drive 8-10K miles per winter, they won't.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm gonna give Blizzaks a shot, thank you both for the info

 

Since I am convinced to pick up some Blizzak tires, could anybody break down the difference between LM-22 and WS-50?
Now my only concern is fittment and clearance.
LM-22s not only have better sizing for my wheels 185/55/15 (LM-22) VS 195/55/15 (WS-50), it has better speed ratings 82H (LM-22) VS 85Q (WS-50).
Understand I am NOT doing any spirited driving, racing, or speeding with these tires, especially under winter weather (even when the roads are dry under cold climate).

Do speed ratings really matter that much?
I also noticed the LM-22 diameter is shorter only by .4 (23.2 VS 23.6).
Would this seriously effect the clearance?
Reason why I ask is I noticed a huge difference between the pricing (101 VS 78). Is it really worth the extra money?

 

From my understanding the LM-22 is more a performance oriented winter tire and the WS-50 is better in dealing with winter weather. I, personally, would go with the WS-50 as it should deal better with snow, ice, and other slop.

I am sure Ken will chime in shortly and explain the differences better.

 

Best winter tire i ever had was a Nokian Hakapalita. Compared to the blizzak I would say in the snow they are pretty much the same but in the dry the bridgestones didn't handle as well because I am guessing a much softer sidewall and treadblocks (that's what it felt like). I have to admit I am lazy and one summer I left the nokian tires on and drove through the summer right into the winter. Tires laster 3 winters and one summer lol. So yes I was a blizzak fan until I drove the Nokians. I think they will last you no problem.

I am in western ontario which is right next to MI...I would say look into the Nokian.


Also a tire I would avoid at all costs....any Kumho winter tire.

here is some nokian links

http://www.google.ca/search?hl...ell=1


Modified by essex at 4:30 PM 9/20/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doubleshotz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could anybody break down the difference between LM-22 and WS-50?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Matt's explanation was a good one, and is more succinct than mine. What I posted above is the long explanation, as follows:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are a lot of excellent winter tires on the market... They tend to break down into two groups:

a) tires that have the very best traction on snow and ice, but have so-so ride and handling on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak REVO1 and WS-50, Dunlop Graspic DS-2, and Michelin X-Ice. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "studless ice and snow tires".)

b) tires that have good traction on snow and ice and in cold, although not quite as good as the previous group, but they also have very good ride and handling characteristics on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22, Dunlop Winter Sport M3, and the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "performance winter tires".)

The choice between these two categories depends on the climate in your area, how much highway driving you do in the winter, how much you care about ultimate snow/ice grip versus ride comfort, whether you have another vehicle to use in the worst of winter, etc. Oh, and the tires in category (a) are usually significantly less expensive than category (b), which may be important. For example, I want the best snow/ice traction and I don't mind sacrificing some ride comfort and handling for those three months a year (mid-December to mid-March around here, although this year's first big storm hit earlier than usual), and winter weather here in Chicago can be fairly nasty, so I have category (a) tires. But your priorities may be different, and you might be better off getting the category (b) tires.

The best category (a) "studless" tires, IMHO, are the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50. These tires have a "multicell compound" in the outer half of the tread, which acts like a sponge to soak up the moisture which melts when you drive on snow and ice. The Michelin X-Ice is also excellent and features siping (slits) in the tread pattern. Both of these really grip much, much better than other tires on those surfaces. Keep in mind that one set of winter tires may last you 6-8 winter seasons, if you drive on them 2-3K miles per winter, so you won't need to buy another set for many years.

All good info for you to consider in deciding what makes the most sense for you. Good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

This one's for nsxtasy since he lives in the Chi.
Which between the two would be necessary for this Mid-West weather?
Honestly I have no experience with any winter tire, hence why I'm asking for your opinion (I believe Chicago has similar climates, I'm there twice a year and the weather was almost identical to my city).
Thanks to all

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doubleshotz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This one's for nsxtasy since he lives in the Chi.
Which between the two would be necessary for this Mid-West weather?
Honestly I have no experience with any winter tire, hence why I'm asking for your opinion (I believe Chicago has similar climates, I'm there twice a year and the weather was almost identical to my city).</TD></TR></TABLE>

I use studless winter tires in winter. I prefer having something that will keep me going even if the snow gets fairly deep and/or the roads get packed down and iced over. In exchange for that, I don't mind if the ride feels a bit sloppy on the occasional warmer day.

I happen to be using the Michelin Arctic Alpin right now (predecessor of their current X-Ice), and before that, I was using the Blizzak MZ-02 (predecessor of the WS-50). If I were buying now, I would get the Blizzak WS-50, the Blizzak REVO1, or the X-Ice.

HTH

 

Thank you sir,
for sharing your knowledge and experience

 

good info guys! this reallie helped me to decide what to get. Thanks!