<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwolsten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This doesn't seem all that useful. GM and Ford are both rated "junk" by Wall Street; GM is on the verge of bankruptcy, and Ford isn't far behind. Both are laying off thousands of people (including engineers). All the best cars are designed in Germany or Japan, with Korea and China coming up behind them. Outside of specialty work, I don't see a lot of employment for automotive engineers in this country in the future.

Mechanics, on the other hand, are a different story. As long as the economy hasn't collapsed, people will always need their cars fixed. Plus, mechanics and other technicians are generally paid much better than engineers in this country. If you're an engineer, you're expected to put in a lot of unpaid overtime and accept a low salary because you love the work so much, but if you're a tech you're just hired help so they'll pay whatever the market will bear (which is a lot since competent techs aren't that numerous).

Don't go into engineering if you have any dreams of a large income.</TD></TR></TABLE>


ok if you LIKE cars... just get both degrees... or better yet get your BSME and just do mechanic on the side..get your ASE certificate in a few fields like engine rebuilding, engine diagnostic, brakes, etc.. and leave it at that.. the best of both worlds!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwolsten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The vast majority of engineers only make about $60k, and just stare at a computer all day speccing bolts or something similarly boring.</TD></TR></TABLE>

THAT IS UNTRUE AND UNFAIR!!!

Where I worked I built a box fort in my cubicle! how's that for hands on!!
The guy in the next cubicle shopped for housewares and electronics all day most days. and the guy two cubes over watched movie trailers and did paperwork (unrelated to his job).

Specing bolts would be a dream job. At least then I would have had something to do.

But yeah, basically if you want the money you have to climb the ladder, which means looking at repetetive data, making a decision, wasting day after day in meetings, lather, rinse, repeat.

I loved my time at a GM dealership. But If I was 45 and still there I would wonder. I thought engineering jobs were rediculously slow paced and unproductive, but job security and benefits are nice (ESPECIALLY with big companies).
Self employment is where its at if you're motivated. best of luck!

 

I spent a good part of the summer driving a sweet 3 wheeled Cushman cart around our plant with a clipboard full of papers on my phone always pretending like I was busy. The hourly guys noticed I was making laps but nobody in charge ever caught on.

 

lol. ^

when I supervised the packaging line @ oregon cherry growers(biggest cherry supplier in the US) I just sat up in the "perch" where the sizer worked and Bullshitted with him. It was great because I didnt have to be down on the floor walking around...I could bark orders from up on the cat walk. But then The plant supervisor put an end to that....she made up some excuse that was complete bullshit.

Later that year when I drove forklift, i switched my nametag on my hardhat to read "mario" lol. I used to HUAL *** through the building. Full throttle the whole way through the plant...the other supers could hear me coming because my forklift would always be running flat out. ROFL.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwolsten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This doesn't seem all that useful. GM and Ford are both rated "junk" by Wall Street; GM is on the verge of bankruptcy, and Ford isn't far behind. Both are laying off thousands of people (including engineers). All the best cars are designed in Germany or Japan, with Korea and China coming up behind them. Outside of specialty work, I don't see a lot of employment for automotive engineers in this country in the future.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I couldn't agree more. I wasn't saying that my aspirations were to work for Ford, or even *gulp* Chrysler. Far from it. Also present at the competition are dozens of race team managers, etc. The head of engine development at Hendrick Motorsports, who is also a design judge for FSAE, came to UNCC the other week to meet with us and assured us, as others have before, that most of those higher up in the industry, whether it's manufacturing or racing, have an FSAE background.

I'm an acura tech now, part time due to school. But there are several guys in the shop who made &gt;60k last year. But if I can make &gt;60k making **** go faster rather than doing timing belts all day, sign me up. There's more to engineering than working for a huge manufacturer doing worthless poo all day (at least I'd like to think so ). I happen to be in the nascar capital of the world, which gives good opportunities, but there are plenty of other race teams I'd rather work for. At least I'm not as crazy as the guy here who thinks he's going to work on an F1 team.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drdisco69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At least I'm not as crazy as the guy here who thinks he's going to work on an F1 team. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You can change tires on an F1 team. Check out the names of the people who are high up for research on those teams, their names all end with a Ph.D.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daveG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Funny thing about the Formula SAE teams...all the kids here at my school that are on it think they're the ****. Too bad they pull C's quarter after quarter because they spend more time working on SAE stuff than on classwork. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Havent you ever heard that C's get degrees but SAE gets you a JOB?

 

Just another idea... I am a civil engineer about to sit for the PE exam and I can tell you that for those of you that are in ME or thinking about ME, a very good field to go into after graduating is a masters in reliability engineering....

A lot of car, plane, computer manufaturers are spending major $$ in reliability engineering in order to minimize the bad apples in the production line...

I have 4 friends from college that all went into reliability engineering after getting their ME from the University of Arizona... 3 of them work for a small company called reliasoft.com and the other one got a job with garrett turbos through allied signal that owns garrett... The money is great and they can get switch jobs within weeks because not too many people have specialized in reliability engineering...

If you are in college, check it out.. reliability engineering.. really cool **** and you can end up working for a major company making 100K++

 

My advice to you is to get your BSME and worry about the details later. The field is extremely broad. I do automotive engineering/testing work but have a business degree..yeah figure that one out. Many of my friends that have BSMEs range from speed shop owners to DREs (design release), to machine tool design, to just plain paper pushers. What direction you take your career after you have your degree is up to you. Just get it first, that's the key.

 

I'm also a recent BSME grad from UD.... i also picked up a math degree and a physics minor while i was there.... i still work the 1st job i got out of school which is for a industrial consulting enigineering firm.... basically i do what all the other guys said the rookie ME's do.... nothing, play with autocad, and go to meetings....gotta pay your dues i guess... the industrial field is pretty much the last thing i want to be doing, but the money is good, the benefits are good, and i pretty much make my own hours, not to mention the expierence will look good on my resume so when i do get serious about a new job in 6 months i have that KEY one year experience..... oh and i have a calculated hourly rate for PAID over-time which i get double time for......so thats cool....my heart is set on something automotive performance related, so i'm always looking around for something good to come along... my advice is to stay away from anything aeronautical, unless you have 10+ years experience, or a PhD..... reason i say this is because i worked for lockheed martin for 6months in my senior year and saw how compartmentalized and boring the aerospace field is for rookie engineers, i didn't really do anything except write bullshit reports no one reads, play secretary, once in a bluemoon do something interesting, and other extremely boring stuff that someone with a engineering degree was WAYY overqualified to do, and thats what i would of been doing if i was hired.... the only good thing about aerospace usually is the money..... but i couldn't work day in day out at a place i absolutly hated, i'd go crazy.....regardless of my paycheck

that sounds like a lot of negative, but don't get me wrong i'm glad i have my ME degree, alot of people can't make the cut to get it, so be proud if you have one!!

and as far as money goes, the average (national average) starting salary for a ME is $52,350....... i started a little under that, but with the overtime i work, i blow past it......another good thing to remember is that in 10 years, when your non-college-grad buddies who used to brag about making almost much as you were, when u got your first job outta school, as they do without a degree doing construction are still making 20bucks n hour breaking their asses and your making 20 times that sitting in your nice big chair in your nice big office......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5.0 Killa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Havent you ever heard that C's get degrees but SAE gets you a JOB?</TD></TR></TABLE>

A's will get you a job too.

 

Grades MIGHT get you a job. Being capable most definatley wont.

Networking will get you anything. It's not about what you know, its about WHO you know.

I know kids that copied my homework to get through classes, and have little or no real capability or drive. Because of connections they ended up working for lockheed and honda. Something to think about.
Edit: I know one guy who got his masters who is very smart and hardworking who also works for Honda engines. he did FSAE and made some connections that helped him land a job. Scott V. if you read this, you are the man.

Just get at least a 3.0 and meet everyone you can, have resumes or cards and try to get people to remember your name. It sounds rediculous and I can here all the engineering students saying "But I've got a 4.0 and I did all my homework on time, I'll get a job no problem" You won't. to the 'good ol' boy' mentality.

Networking is ESPECIALLY importatnt if you want to work in a small, competetive, and desirable field like automotive performance ME. That's why FSAE kids get jobs, not because they know anything. They might, but eally there are so many resources out there anyone can build a car. Building it well is a completely different matter.

Also, I'm really put of by all the kids who think that if it isnt CNC machined and solid modeled FEA and CFD analyzed its worthless old technology. Honestly experience and development is worth so much more than a computer, which really should be used as more of a time saver and not a design tool. Most schools teach FEA and CFD with that caveat, but kids ignore it because honestly its exciting to think a computer will do the hard work for you instead of just giving you a general idea...
just another $0.02 on the pile.


Modified by Niles at 12:14 AM 3/9/2006

 

ahhh i love this thread. So this FSAE **** is not only for ***** n giggles but very benefical in landing a job in the automotive field correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drchulo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ahhh i love this thread. So this FSAE **** is not only for ***** n giggles but very benefical in landing a job in the automotive field correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

FSAE is the most prestigious engineering competition in the world. Employers love seeing that on your resume, because it shows you had the dedication and commitment to work with a team to design and finish a project. They will absolutely love it.

FSAE also give you the chance to see what's really going on in the engineering world. My classes up to this point (Junior ME major at ASU) haven't really shown me a whole lot as far as what's going on out there. It's been a bunch of formulas and mathematics. You get to see a lot of cool materials, equipment, software,.... if you work with FSAE. I recommend it.

 

looks like i need to get my *** into a similar program at my school. I could probly land a job where i currently work as a machinist but theres not to much new an exciting goin on at the place, the engineers there jus play video games or clean up old prints. hopefully its not to late to join in the middle of the semester???

 

Even if you don't get to drive or do any of the work, if you've never been around a car being assembled or built, you'll learn something, and be in a position to help the team next year. So if you're interested, go for it! best of luck. and don't forget to google FSAE because there's lots of information on basic car design, suggested reading etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Niles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even if you don't get to drive or do any of the work, if you've never been around a car being assembled or built, you'll learn something, and be in a position to help the team next year. So if you're interested, go for it! best of luck. and don't forget to google FSAE because there's lots of information on basic car design, suggested reading etc. </TD></TR></TABLE> anybody have any suggestion i wouldnt mind picking up a book for some late night reads during the weekday.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolinlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and as far as money goes, the average (national average) starting salary for a ME is $52,350....... i started a little under that, but with the overtime i work, i blow past it......another good thing to remember is that in 10 years, when your non-college-grad buddies who used to brag about making almost much as you were, when u got your first job outta school, as they do without a degree doing construction are still making 20bucks n hour breaking their asses and your making 20 times that sitting in your nice big chair in your nice big office...... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know where you're getting these ideas from.

First off, most engineers are salaried. That means you don't get paid for overtime. Overtime is for hourly workers.

Second, in 10 years, you'll be lucky if you're making much more than you did fresh out of school. You certainly won't be making 20 times that (that's $1 million!). If you do exceptionally well, you might make 3 times your starting salary at your peak, but this is very rare. Basically, why would a company want to pay you that much when they can just get a fresh grad to work for less?

The only way to make a LOT more money as an engineer is to move into management. Of course, if you do that, you'll be pushing papers and going to meetings all day, and you won't be an engineer any more. Do you really want to do that with your life, or are you interested in the technical work? If the technical work is what you're interested in, and you have no interest in managing people, then you will be screwed in the engineering profession.

My advice: if you're interested in technical work, stay a technician. Get a BSME if you really want, and can afford it, but don't become a typical corporate-drone engineer like everyone else. Start your own business doing something you really like.

 

I'm currently at the University of Washington and was working on a ME degree and then really started researching jobs and found as said already that most are salaried and mostly a computer in a cubicle kind of deal. I couldn't do that if i tried, so I'm focusing on a business degree and am working on a certification in AutoCad, and various fabrication in hopes to open my own shop and be more hands on. That's the plan anyway, but I want a good degree first.

 

well from the research i have been doing thats what it seems. Cubicle type jobs, but what im more perplexed about is that some people complain about salary, others say you will make a decent amount. And just by doing a search on monster.com of what the median salary was for a person with a bsme, it seemed promising.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drchulo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> anybody have any suggestion i wouldnt mind picking up a book for some late night reads during the weekday.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Pick your poison :-)
PM me if you want to call and ask about any of the specifics of these books, I'd be happy to talk to a fellow enthusiast. Especially one who actually wants to learn more than just how to get to 1000000000000000fwhp

sorry for the rambling post.

Race car vehicle dynamics by milliken and milliken (Huge book, more handy as a reference than for reading through)
Race car engineering & mechanics by van valkenburgh (a good read, some of my less car crazy friends say its too technical, as an engineer I think its a good intro to the technical stuff)
Mechanical behavior of materials by dowling or Engineering materials by budinski and budinski are my materials references
Internal combustion engine in theory and practice (fayette taylor) People complain this book is a little dated (i think the last major data update was late eighties? the thing is fundamentals DO NOT change, and there will never be a book with completely up to date information, because that would basically be industrial espionage.
On engine management: I come from a HEAVY BMW and GM background, so I deal with Bosch and GM stuff, I enjoyed "how to understand, service and modify bosch fuel injection" when I was a kid. Reading a book like that will give the reader an understanding of the basics of engine management.
There is a more up to date, import focused book "How to tune and modify Engine management systems" by Hartman that has a bunch of fun projects and examples in there, the guy is a little obsessed with bob norwood, but the guy does build great cars no doubt.
I think anything written by carrol smith is garbage. You can find the information in enigneering texts more easily, completely, and applicably with corrolary data, he's a jerk, he omits the details amateur vehicle designers actually want to know and then says "buy my other books to find out this stuff" but its not in there either, etc.
On turbos:
Maximum boost by corky bell (I should mention that I'm a die hard NA guy, I thought briefly about turboing my E30, then decided that's sacrilage)

On driving: Secrets of solo racing by watts
Going faster the skip barber school

any book on "statics" is handy to learn about load analysis if you don't have an engineering background.
hmmm...anything else? I have shelves of old books as well, that are sadly no longer published, but are fantastic to read.
Edit:
OOh OOh!
The Race and rally car sourcebook is pretty good as well for people like me who like to build cars. by allan staniforth.it was hard to find, but informative on a lot of little details that other people like to leave out of books and then act smart by saying "this is basic" its not. For example he actually discusses roll center movement, aluminum honeycomb construction with specific gagues of AL etc. Although I'm not 100% with him on every design criterial, this is a very good book. A little focused on single seat hill climbers, but again the basics apply to everything.
For those who like to keep abreast of the field:
Racecar engineering journal, its a pricey subscription, but very good.


Modified by Niles at 12:27 AM 3/9/2006

 

Mechanical Engineering sucks

I have a
Thermo Final
Stregnths Final,
Intermediate Dynamics Final,
and a Circuits Final next week all within 2 days...

EVERYDAY I THINK HOW I SHOULD HAVE BEEN A NURSE. I would probably make more money, and not go through hell in school.

For real though, Mechanical Engineering is hard, and you will probably end up working in the heating and air condition industry when you graduate.

 

imma hit up a barnes n nobles sooooon lol.

 

Every time one of my nurse friends has to give someone a sponge bath or empty a bedpan, they think about how they should have been an engineer hahha can't win em all.
Take heart, the workplace is way less stressful than school.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Niles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every time one of my nurse friends has to give someone a sponge bath or empty a bedpan, they think about how they should have been an engineer hahha can't win em all.
Take heart, the workplace is way less stressful than school.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha good one. Yeah man i know. HAHA