Recent CNC Work
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Re: (drumking15)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its called quality, cleaness....of course there are more than one way to skin a cat...its just w/ a well machie flange his skin will look a lil cleaner vs the welded bungs...also id like to see you injector angles...id bet there off slighty</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well if you are going to make a custom intake manifold, you'd think you may want to modify the angles vs stock as stock's purpose were mainly for improved fuel economy vs power. Again, I just don't understand the obsession with these flanges. Sure they may be pretty, but they aren't meant for improving performance so it almost negates the point of making a custom intake manifold.
Well if you are going to make a custom intake manifold, you'd think you may want to modify the angles vs stock as stock's purpose were mainly for improved fuel economy vs power. Again, I just don't understand the obsession with these flanges. Sure they may be pretty, but they aren't meant for improving performance so it almost negates the point of making a custom intake manifold.
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Re: (nowtype)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well if you are going to make a custom intake manifold, you'd think you may want to modify the angles vs stock as stock's purpose were mainly for improved fuel economy vs power. Again, I just don't understand the obsession with these flanges. Sure they may be pretty, but they aren't meant for improving performance so it almost negates the point of making a custom intake manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>
what do you mean by not improving perfomace? what makes these worse then a standard flat flange for a custom manifold?
Well if you are going to make a custom intake manifold, you'd think you may want to modify the angles vs stock as stock's purpose were mainly for improved fuel economy vs power. Again, I just don't understand the obsession with these flanges. Sure they may be pretty, but they aren't meant for improving performance so it almost negates the point of making a custom intake manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>
what do you mean by not improving perfomace? what makes these worse then a standard flat flange for a custom manifold?
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Re: (CoreyR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CoreyR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you mean by not improving perfomace? what makes these worse then a standard flat flange for a custom manifold?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because Honda designed the injector angle and location based on a 140-190hp naturally asperated engine designed to get close to 30mpg. If you are willing to spend $250 on a flange, I'd imagine you have some money in the rest of your engine which means that the engine probably is going to make a little more power. Meaning the engines purpose and dynamics has changed. This means that Honda's configuration may not be so great for your new purpose. It's really not a difficult concept. These flanges are for people who want to make custom intake manifolds without doing any R&D or math. People that want to make serious race parts would be willing to put in the time and effort and calculate where and how the injectors should be orientated to give them the best performance for their purpose.
I don't see all the fuss with this product. It looks nice and I'm sure it functions well, but all the bitching and moaning about people waiting for this product when they could have just as easily welded in the bosses on the runners doesn't make sense to me.
Because Honda designed the injector angle and location based on a 140-190hp naturally asperated engine designed to get close to 30mpg. If you are willing to spend $250 on a flange, I'd imagine you have some money in the rest of your engine which means that the engine probably is going to make a little more power. Meaning the engines purpose and dynamics has changed. This means that Honda's configuration may not be so great for your new purpose. It's really not a difficult concept. These flanges are for people who want to make custom intake manifolds without doing any R&D or math. People that want to make serious race parts would be willing to put in the time and effort and calculate where and how the injectors should be orientated to give them the best performance for their purpose.
I don't see all the fuss with this product. It looks nice and I'm sure it functions well, but all the bitching and moaning about people waiting for this product when they could have just as easily welded in the bosses on the runners doesn't make sense to me.
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From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Re: Recent CNC Work (PSI2HI)
Damn nice work, I was working on almost this same exact part, only slightly different, but now I may not bother, haha..
Good work, looks clean, ignore the haters, and definately don't devalue your product or your time, it's not worth the hassle in the end if you sell the product for less than its worth.
Good work, looks clean, ignore the haters, and definately don't devalue your product or your time, it's not worth the hassle in the end if you sell the product for less than its worth.
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From: northern, ma, US
Re: (nowtype)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well if you are going to make a custom intake manifold, you'd think you may want to modify the angles vs stock as stock's purpose were mainly for improved fuel economy vs power. Again, I just don't understand the obsession with these flanges. Sure they may be pretty, but they aren't meant for improving performance so it almost negates the point of making a custom intake manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>
um no...stock injector angles have been more than proven to 800whp+...and besides at that point are you seriously going to be running only 4 injectors....no....so even if you stock injector angles arent perfect you can always correct this with your secodary set
and there is a reason why our cars get good fuel efficency and last long...is because honda designed a pretty decent car from the get go...just becuase it didnt make 400+ off the factory floor doesnt mean it cant
um no...stock injector angles have been more than proven to 800whp+...and besides at that point are you seriously going to be running only 4 injectors....no....so even if you stock injector angles arent perfect you can always correct this with your secodary set
and there is a reason why our cars get good fuel efficency and last long...is because honda designed a pretty decent car from the get go...just becuase it didnt make 400+ off the factory floor doesnt mean it cant
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Re: (rota92)
I really wonder why one of the more respected people who work with heads on a daily basis PM'd me and said I was right on with my comments while you believe that stock position is "perfect". I'd also like to know why welding injector bosses is going to lead to failure? Can someone not weld? Even if the intake manifold is pressurized to 60psi, if you can't weld to hold 60psi, you shouldn't be welding. I also like how everything comes down to looks with you. I thought the point of making a custom intake manifold was to make power.
These flanges are for people who don't want to do math and figure out optimized fuel injector location and angle. That's it. If you believe Honda did that already when designing for a sub 200hp NA engine, then you are very very confused.
These flanges are for people who don't want to do math and figure out optimized fuel injector location and angle. That's it. If you believe Honda did that already when designing for a sub 200hp NA engine, then you are very very confused.
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Re: (nowtype)
I'd look at it this way:
People have made 800+ whp w/ the injectors in those locations, so although it may not be "optimal" by some peoples standards, I would say it is a nice compromise for someone looking to build intakes for mild all motor setups all the way to the most wild street turbo setups.
One flange for all of your needs, and having seen these flanges throughout the design, programming, and machining processes, the amount and quality of work into them is amazing.
If you still have a problem with it, I would say GTFO and go make your own flanges.
And rota, D series flanges are coming soon.
People have made 800+ whp w/ the injectors in those locations, so although it may not be "optimal" by some peoples standards, I would say it is a nice compromise for someone looking to build intakes for mild all motor setups all the way to the most wild street turbo setups.
One flange for all of your needs, and having seen these flanges throughout the design, programming, and machining processes, the amount and quality of work into them is amazing.
If you still have a problem with it, I would say GTFO and go make your own flanges.
And rota, D series flanges are coming soon.
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From: Illinois
Re: (integra_gsr98)
First company I have seen, that actually came threw to make intake manifold flanges to the public, that gets a 
to me. Good start for a home made itb project.
Modified by RCautoworks at 6:26 PM 6/4/2007
to me. Good start for a home made itb project. Modified by RCautoworks at 6:26 PM 6/4/2007
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Re: (rota92)
I never talked about an off the shelf part. I said people who are willing to spend $250 in a flange, which will equate to probably a $1500+ intake manifold should understand that they are missing a key part in the design when they can change the injector angle and location and gain power for no extra cost. You guys like to dance around my points for whatever reason but my point is simple. These flanges are a lot of money yet still don't address a key part of designing an intake manifold. Stock injector location and angle were not intended for performance applications. If you are willing to dump that much money on an intake manifold, you'd think you would want to at least explore different injector locations and angles.
I like how a simple, true statement about gains on moving injector location is something you guys are willing to argue over. I wish the person who PM'd me would have posted in here. It would have made you guys not try to jump on my back.
I like how a simple, true statement about gains on moving injector location is something you guys are willing to argue over. I wish the person who PM'd me would have posted in here. It would have made you guys not try to jump on my back.
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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Re: (RCautoworks)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RCautoworks »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First company I have seen, that actually came threw to make intake manifold flanges to the public, that gets a to me. Good start for a home made itb project.
Modified by RCautoworks at 6:26 PM 6/4/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have and always will .. but most people dont like the $200 price tag ..
so most the time I hack up the factory part ...
to me. Good start for a home made itb project. Modified by RCautoworks at 6:26 PM 6/4/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have and always will .. but most people dont like the $200 price tag ..
so most the time I hack up the factory part ...
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
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Re: (MAX_CFM)
This thread was not even posted to argue over what their worth or a selling price. We simply had a request from the public for these as well as we've been working on an intake manifold for our own use.
This post was simply to show some recent fab/CNC work here @ the shop, so enough BS about price, injector angle and so on.... If you dont like the design, the price, or you can make something better so be it, go make your own and be done w/ it.
This post was simply to show some recent fab/CNC work here @ the shop, so enough BS about price, injector angle and so on.... If you dont like the design, the price, or you can make something better so be it, go make your own and be done w/ it.
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Re: (nowtype)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I never talked about an off the shelf part. I said people who are willing to spend $250 in a flange, which will equate to probably a $1500+ intake manifold should understand that they are missing a key part in the design when they can change the injector angle and location and gain power for no extra cost. You guys like to dance around my points for whatever reason but my point is simple. These flanges are a lot of money yet still don't address a key part of designing an intake manifold. Stock injector location and angle were not intended for performance applications. If you are willing to dump that much money on an intake manifold, you'd think you would want to at least explore different injector locations and angles.
I like how a simple, true statement about gains on moving injector location is something you guys are willing to argue over. I wish the person who PM'd me would have posted in here. It would have made you guys not try to jump on my back.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont think anyone is arguing that a different injectopr angle wouldnt be a benefit, but fact is people have made 800+ with the stock angles, and if you need more power then that you probably know what needs to be done with the injector angles to just go out and get a flat flange/bungs to make the manifold to spec. maybe some DIY guys just want to buy a nice flange to make there own custom manifold and this is the perfect part for them, remember 250 isnt THAT much when your not paying someone else to build the thing for you.
and since were on the subject of injector angles, can you explain to me how to determine the best angle for the injectors? id really like to know.
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From: Dont Steal My Car, Ct, USA
Re: (CoreyR)
i think that the only thing that Nowtype is saying is for 250$ the injector angle should be optimal, and if its not, then use a stock flanges.
I do however, like these flanges, and of coarse many people have made 800+ on sotck angles, but that doesnt mean its the best angle for the power level.
This is definetly a good contribution to the industry, so lets stop picking it apart.
I do however, like these flanges, and of coarse many people have made 800+ on sotck angles, but that doesnt mean its the best angle for the power level.
This is definetly a good contribution to the industry, so lets stop picking it apart.
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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Re: (93supercoupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93supercoupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think that the only thing that Nowtype is saying is for 250$ the injector angle should be optimal, and if its not, then use a stock flanges.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think Nowtype thinks he's hot **** because he's an ME student doing FSAE. Wow man, way cool. So am I. So are probably dozens of other people here, if not more.
The only people that will really worry that much about injector placement and angle are race teams with BIG bucks, like F1. There is no set optimal injector placement/angle. It's dependent on the exact setup you're running. In order for OP's company to provide a flange with your "optimal" placement/angle, they would have to take each and every customer engine and complete setup, strap it to an engine dyno, and dyno the **** out of it. Not practical for 99.99% of H-T members.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think Nowtype thinks he's hot **** because he's an ME student doing FSAE. Wow man, way cool. So am I. So are probably dozens of other people here, if not more.
The only people that will really worry that much about injector placement and angle are race teams with BIG bucks, like F1. There is no set optimal injector placement/angle. It's dependent on the exact setup you're running. In order for OP's company to provide a flange with your "optimal" placement/angle, they would have to take each and every customer engine and complete setup, strap it to an engine dyno, and dyno the **** out of it. Not practical for 99.99% of H-T members.
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From: high point, nc, usa
Re: (nowtype)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I never talked about an off the shelf part. I said people who are willing to spend $250 in a flange, which will equate to probably a $1500+ intake manifold should understand that they are missing a key part in the design when they can change the injector angle and location and gain power for no extra cost. You guys like to dance around my points for whatever reason but my point is simple. These flanges are a lot of money yet still don't address a key part of designing an intake manifold. Stock injector location and angle were not intended for performance applications. If you are willing to dump that much money on an intake manifold, you'd think you would want to at least explore different injector locations and angles.
I like how a simple, true statement about gains on moving injector location is something you guys are willing to argue over. I wish the person who PM'd me would have posted in here. It would have made you guys not try to jump on my back.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're absolutely right about the benefits of correct placement of bungs on the runners, but i dont really think this is the point of the product. The point of it is to make it easier for someone to make their own IM, without having to go through the hassle of doing all the math and calculations to figure out the perfect runner length, plenum size, injector placement, etc.. Most people will just copy a design thats already out there and proven to make power. This product is perfect for people who chose to do it that way(and theres nothing wrong with doing it that way).
Besides, most people dont have the knowledge to figure out the perfect placement for the bungs, and making a mistake in the calculations could really expletive things up. The stock placement has been proven to make alot of power, im sure its not the best place for a 800+hp engine, but it still works.
These flanges look really good, and im glad to see that someone finally stepped up to the plate and made them
I like how a simple, true statement about gains on moving injector location is something you guys are willing to argue over. I wish the person who PM'd me would have posted in here. It would have made you guys not try to jump on my back.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're absolutely right about the benefits of correct placement of bungs on the runners, but i dont really think this is the point of the product. The point of it is to make it easier for someone to make their own IM, without having to go through the hassle of doing all the math and calculations to figure out the perfect runner length, plenum size, injector placement, etc.. Most people will just copy a design thats already out there and proven to make power. This product is perfect for people who chose to do it that way(and theres nothing wrong with doing it that way).
Besides, most people dont have the knowledge to figure out the perfect placement for the bungs, and making a mistake in the calculations could really expletive things up. The stock placement has been proven to make alot of power, im sure its not the best place for a 800+hp engine, but it still works.
These flanges look really good, and im glad to see that someone finally stepped up to the plate and made them
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From: hempstead, tx
Re: (PSI2HI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PSI2HI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly its getting real ******* old w/ everyone commeting on how they think this is so easy and we're asking way to much $$ and so on. Go out buy your own CNC, hire a desinger/programmer, and a machinist and we'll start buying them from you guys for pennies on the dollar.
We've got over 20+ into design/programing time, plus the design and macchining time of the 2 fixutres it takes to make these parts, and then the time it takes to machine these parts themselves.
So in the end, yes we will sell these and they are going to be $250. Yes we sell head flanges, turbo flamges, wastegate flangesm, downpipe flanges, but we charge a fair price of what in reality it costs to make them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
250 is cheap for a part with over 20 in it.
We've got over 20+ into design/programing time, plus the design and macchining time of the 2 fixutres it takes to make these parts, and then the time it takes to machine these parts themselves.
So in the end, yes we will sell these and they are going to be $250. Yes we sell head flanges, turbo flamges, wastegate flangesm, downpipe flanges, but we charge a fair price of what in reality it costs to make them.</TD></TR></TABLE>
250 is cheap for a part with over 20 in it.
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From: BeLlInGhAm, Wa
Re: (I_HATE_JDM)
Its really easy to make those (FSAE) comments when you...
DIDN'T PAY FOR THE HAAS CNC MILL.
DIDN'T PAY FOR THE SHOP THE MILL IS IN.
DON'T HAVE TO SUPPORT YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY.
HAVE OTHER PEOPLE PAYING FOR YOUR CAR.
Its really easy to point the finger and bitch about injector placement...but if you're running an AEM id say spend the time tuning your injector phasing and dont worry about the injector angle.
Props to SLS
DIDN'T PAY FOR THE HAAS CNC MILL.
DIDN'T PAY FOR THE SHOP THE MILL IS IN.
DON'T HAVE TO SUPPORT YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY.
HAVE OTHER PEOPLE PAYING FOR YOUR CAR.
Its really easy to point the finger and bitch about injector placement...but if you're running an AEM id say spend the time tuning your injector phasing and dont worry about the injector angle.
Props to SLS