Im moving into 1400sq/ft to do my installs and i want to slowly start collecting more machines to build up with my fab work.

Im looking to get a drill press and a bandsaw over then next 6 months.

Id say for both machines combined id like to stay under 5500.

I have been looking at ellis bandsaws the 1800 or 2000 series models and i also looked at the ellis drill presses. If anyone has any experience iwth these units or have any other recommendations i would greatly appreciate it.

I dont want to cut my own collecters often, although i might wind up doing them in the near future, for now i just get them from BMC.

I plan to cut thin wall tube for i/c pipes, exhausts, intake manifold pieces, and some sched 10/40 for manifolds

 

Buy a cold saw for cutting thin wall pipe. Don't even mess with a bandsaw, the difference is amazing.

As far as a drill press goes, you're better off buying a used milling machine. They are ten times more rigid than any hobby drill press could try to be. Rigid setups = circular holes. Shaky drill presses = rounded triangles. A mill with a good 6" machinist vice and you're all set.

That's my take on it. I am a machinist (not a fabricator) but I do this type of work daily. You've got plenty of budget here to buy the right stuff.

Evan

 

can you lead me in a direction for what you would get for a mill? I am not nearly as educated on brands and what to specifically look for on these types of tools.

 

i have a chop saw that i have been using now, im just looking to get some larger machines to make my life easier, any other input would be appreciated, makes, models, reasons, etc.

 

a cold saw is nothing close to a chop saw.

 

As mentioned earlier if you plan on spending that kinda money get a used mill, and I would also look around for a nice big used bandsaw.

2kjettaguy I pm'd you I need some lathe work done and im hoping you have a lathe

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2kjettaguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buy a cold saw for cutting thin wall pipe. Don't even mess with a bandsaw, the difference is amazing</TD></TR></TABLE>

So is the price

 

get a used DoAll vertical bandsaw and a used bridgeport mill J- head min 2J head prefered Don't worry about having a blade welder as the blades ae beter to buy then jerking around tring to make them yourself. The really good bimetal material is not easy to weld reliably you will need to search to get both of these for the 5500 there are also some good imported mills avaliable but if you can get a bridgeport mill that would be good

 

Ed - replied to your PM...

This question really defines the difference between a machinist and a fabricator. I am not saying there is anything wrong with either, but stating that we're talking about two different methods of metalworking.

Generally, fabricators are looking for the end result. It doesn't matter how the pipe gets cut as long as the end result is X.

Machinists are looking for the most accurate and efficient way to do the work. The end result is nice, but they usually strive for perfection in every dimension, every detail.

Machinists are typically volume oriented and work to create higher quantities of parts, each within very close tolerances. Fabricators are usually fabricating something from scratch that only needs to be built once.

When it comes to cutting pipe most fabricators think bandsaw because they are the most versatile and cost effective piece of cutting equipment you can buy. For cutting pipe, thick or thin a cold saw is the best piece of equipment to use. Bandsaws work, and chop saws....

Chop saws are hobby tools. They leave way too much slag on a part, they heat the metal up way too hot, and the grinding dust and fumes are horrible for you. You can work harden stainless steel cutting it with a chop saw.

Bandsaws work, but are not necessarily the best piece of equipment to use. The basic flaw to the bandsaw is down feed control. Almost any bandsaw under $5000 is going to have a pneumatic down feed control. This works fine for solid bar stock. The down feed applies constant pressure to the blade as it cuts. This is NOT what you want for pipe. You need down pressure to get through the top of the pipe, but not once you cut through. What happens with a bandsaw is the down feed pressure builds up as you're cutting through the top of the pipe. Once you've broken the surface the blade rushes down into the pipe causing the cut to go out of square. This wears the blade out very quickly. Once the blade hits the bottom of the pipe everything's OK, just out of square! Burr is based on blade sharpness. A sharp blade will only stay sharp if you don't rip into the pipe.

Bandsaws exceeding $5000 have hydraulic pumps and the down feed is controlled by a hydraulic cylinder. This adds rigidity and assures you won't smoke the blade. These machines also have better clamping assemblies. Most sub $5000 bandsaws have rather flimsy clamps. These machines have been designed for bar stock which is easy to clamp.

Cold saws are different. Cold saws are designed to cut pipe. Unlike a bandsaw or chop saw, a cold saw is actually milling the material. The blade mills the material taking the heat out with the chip. Hence the name "cold saw".

The basic rule of thumb with a cold saw is that you want 2.5 teeth engaged in the pipe at once. Your dealer can help you choose the right blade for your application. RPM is typically "low" or "high" with variable speed options available. The cold saw blade is 10-14" and 1/8" thick. The blade is extremely rigid and will never flex on you. Side cut is perfect. There are no burrs unless you try to cut a piece of pipe in 2.5 seconds.

Another advantage to a cold saw is clamp design. Most cold saws have a self centering double sided clamp. The work is held on both sides, and damn tight. The clamp jaws are extremely adjustable and custom jaws can be easily made. Miter cuts are simple. Every single cut you make is square.

I have been machining and fabricating parts for VWs for over 5 years. (that I have been in business). I just broke down and bought a cold saw in December. It was $5000 total. I have not regretted the purchase one bit. I will never cut a piece of pipe on a bandsaw. I had the displeasure of using a chop saw the other day, and wished I was back in my own shop.

We don't do custom fabrication. I don't do custom work for anyone. All of my time is spent developing new products or in production. Everything I do is built to be produced over and over agan, but that doesn't mean I don't do simple fabrication. Anytime I am designing a new pipe based product I spent hours building mock ups and proof-of-concept parts.

The cold saw wins if I am cutting 100 pieces or just one.

Oh, and the cold saw blades are rated for 1000 pipe cuts before resharpening. I would be lucky to get 10 cuts of 3" stainless exhaust pipe from a bandsaw blade.

So... this is a long post. Back to my machinist vs. fabricator point... If you're planning to use these tools to make a living, think like a machinist not a fabricator. Make the investment in the right tools and you won't regret it. Once you have a product which you want to do a batch of you will save tons of TIME with the coldsaw, your parts will be better and more accurate, and you won't be re-squaring the clamp, changing out blades, or grinding burrs. When your business picks up you'll apreciate being able to knock out batches fast.

Evan

 

We run a fully automatic roller feed scotchman cold saw (cpo315rfa) for our production cutting, and on stainless materials we dont get better then 200-300 cut blade lifes. Mild we see about 500-600 cuts per blade. You do get a burr, definitely not the same type of burr you get with a bandsaw or a hot saw, but there is some deburring required. The major drawback with cold saws is after the blades get sharped 5-10 times, they tend to fail. We break about a blade a week (in half). We've been running cold saws for almost 5 years, and I've yet to see any of our sctochman saws go down.

If you do look at a cold saw - a good saw would be the scotchman cpo350ltvs (low turn variable speed), we have one of these in the fab shop and they are very happy with it. The clamp system on it is ideal for fabricators as you can hold work in all kinds of deranged ways without having too much trouble doing so. You can adjust the speed to match the material, and you probably want to stay with a low turn model if you are going to be cutting a lot of stainless materials. As an option, you can get a special fixturing t-slot table where you can setup stops to do production cutting. I've seen them cut collectors this way.

 

ive been looking at the saws, i dont understand all of the specs, do they cut straight on and 45 in either direction? or straight on and any increment up to 45 deg in either direction? if i wanted to make a 20deg cut could I? and am i limited to a 45 deg cut as the largest angle cut i can make?

I need a saw that will cut 4" tube

 

compare used tools to enco.

i have an old beat-up mill/drill similar to this size and love it for hobby use.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/IN...LMK32

i do misc work for my own roll cage like:

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/to...79222

don't forget the tooling you will need for the mill. look for used machinery auctions but also have a realistic idea of what new is going to the auction.