Okay, so I'm thinking about having my ECU reprogrammed. The first place I called was JET Performance Products who told me "no problem", $299 please. I'm okay with that, but first I need to find an ECU to put in the car so I can drive it while mine is at JET. So I start to do some research here on what ECUs will work, etc.

Then I find Hondata's page which says that my ECU is a big PITA; they have to replace the ROM and it can only be programmed once for a fee of $390. They suggest convert to OBD I at the cost of a computer (P28 for $200) and adapter harness ($250) since this ECU can be reprogrammed many times in addition to expanded tuning benefits from the OBD I.

So I call JET back and they say this is not the case and that they can "flash" my ECU as many times as I want for $299 a pop.

So now I'm confused about what to do...I think obviously the best thing is convert to OBD I, but $450 is too much. I can get a P28 for $100 locally, but Hondata's site says that "a P28 from a Civic Ex will drive the GSR engine, but will not use the knock sensor and secondary intake runner. The secondary runner will be left in the short position." What consequences are there from the knock sensor not being used and the runner being left in the short position?

Anyone know where an OBD II to OBD I harness adapter can be had for less than $250???

Thanks for replies...

Mike


[Modified by RacerMike, 1:09 PM 4/17/2002]

 

JET is full of it. Your ECU is not flashable. There are no flashable Honda ECUs execpt for the new Civic/RSX (and maybe the S2000 - not sure on that).

Andrew

 

The short runner on your IM being left open is a good thing. The long runner in the GSR IM is there to provide low rpm torque, then the shorty opens up to supply more air, faster in Vtec. It would be to your benefit to keep the shortys open and the long runners not.

BTW, typical GSR ecu will switch to vtec at about 4800 rpm, but not open the short runner till about 5500 rpm. The benefit of having the shorty open always is that it will be open upon the onslaught of vtec, creating more power.

What I want to know is when the P28 is chipped, does it change the fuel maps ? I mean a GSR won't survive with a stock EX fuel map right ?


[Modified by X2BOARD, 5:21 PM 4/17/2002]

 

I respectfully disagree.

The dual runner's sole purpose is to create low-rpm power. By shorting it out, you're losing low rpm power... no way around it. For a street-driven car, this is a big deal.

Losing the knock sensor on the other hand, is no loss at all.

The ideal setup would be a chipped P28 with a Skunk2 intake manifold. Let me clarify, a chipped P28 tuned to your specific setup would be ideal. If you're talking about taking your ECU out and mailing it to someone, then they're just putting a generic program on it. That's not really useful. Ok, so it may actually make more power, but nothing compared to what it would if it was tuned to your engine setup.

In the end, it's a lot of money to spend. You need to really ask yourself if it's worth it.

 

Glad to see that someone else thinks that the Honda Engineers aren't retards...I wish I had dual runners in my Civic Ex, every little bit helps. BUT, I bet you'd still be ahead of where you are now, power-wise, with the reprogrammed ecu and open short runner. Though, I really don't see why you can't have both. By the way, JET is a rip-off...they just ask "Headers?, Intake?,Exhaust?"...if you don't dyno tune or have it specific it could be hurting your performance.


[Modified by ion_four, 8:40 AM 4/18/2002]

 

Yes, for everyday driving, a dual runner would be quite desirable. But your are coming from a totally different point of view, your point of view is based on street driving, where low rpm torque is needed (and every bit of it). I am not saying that the Honda engineers are retards, it's just that they did not design the car solely from a performance aspect, no car manufacturer does short of the exotics Now considering the performance aspect, a dual runner would be absolutely the opposite of what you want. The design of the DR from Honda is ingenious, yes, for street driving, which is what Hondas are for, but let's face it, the GSR manifold is the least desireable IM for tuners (such as ourselves). The 'loss' of some higher end Hp is due to the short runner not opening early enough. The B16, arguably a better head design, also has a superior IM design that does NOT use duel runner, nor does the type R IM... both stock honda manifolds... would you consider the designers of these manifolds retards ? No, of course not. Hell, even plate systems for nitrous eliminate the long runner. The Skunk2, as you mentioned, is a short, single runner design to avoid the inferior dual runner. The end result is that if you have the chance to elimiate the dual runner by swapping manifolds, you should, as the GSR dual mani does not serve it's purpose in cars that belong to HT members.... my $0.02

BTW, the p28 does not run a knock sensor ? Is that what you are saying... I wanted to find out. Also, does anyone know exactly what chip burners like JET do to your ECU ? Remap fuel curves? Raise rev and speed limiters ? What else ?

Anthony

 

Quote:

BTW, the p28 does not run a knock sensor ? Is that what you are saying... I wanted to find out. Also, does anyone know exactly what chip burners like JET do to your ECU ? Remap fuel curves? Raise rev and speed limiters ? What else ?
__________________________________________________ ________________

Chips are actually a waste of money unless they are eeprom chips (which cost about $2-$5 each) because these are reprogrammable which (also called flash roms) this might be what JET was telling, which means they would simply reprogram your chip (which takes about 30 seconds). JET and other companys that sell chips (including skunk2) are all really a waste of money. All engines are different and these companys use base programs that they have already made and burn these chips in mass production. So your chip might give you 12 hp across the board but the same chip on someone elses car that is the exact same might only make 1hp. The best way to find which program is best for your car is to put it on a DYNO and tune it with a stand alone and a Pocket programmer. Hope this helps. Also for everyone that thinks the Mugen program is the best to buy, check out this... http://www.hondata.com/mugen.html