is it more important to have a lighter wheel or have a wheel with a smaller overall circumference in respect to handling and acceleration?

 

more rim less tire like 18" rims with 215/35/18 tires are good for road racing and so forth because of added traction or bite, grip what ever contact patch. and they also make the gear ratios taller for higher mph in each gear. while smaller rims do the opposite.

 

Did you bother to do a search on this, it came up many times in the past....i would do a search for you and help you out, but im on dialup and still bitter about it. Sorry

 

Wow, that is so wrong.
You want the smallest wheels that can clear your brakes usually. Lighter wheels have much more effect than a light flywheel, and also have an effect on handeling and braking, while a light flywheel does not.
The reason that 18's aren't good for road racing for most is that it places all of the weight out at the outside of the wheel, and the theory of ratational inertia says that the farther away the weight is from the center, the harder it is tu turn..hence the smalles wheels that you can clear over the brakes. In reality, there is sometimes a compromise made for available sizes/price of wheels and tires. But note, if it was so great to run 18's...all race cars would run them. Ever see a realtime ITR frquntflyr? They use 15" Volks.

Also, when you properly plus size the wheels, the overall diameter should not change at all...so 18's would not provide taller gear ratios, and besides that, you want ratios as tight as possible for the course that you are running.

 

sonic, you got that right.

I ride 18's street and 15's track/autox.

huge difference in responsiveness with the 15's, I love them for their ability to improve handling, braking and acceleration.

even if 18's are superlight like some Volks/RHarts, you still have the weight moving out farther from the hub, and that means it will be harder to accelerate and be more resistant to braking. point blank.
its all moment arms/physics.

 

Sonic is right.....
Smaller rims help with the rotational intertia, not to mention the force that is applied to the ground is greater. this translate into better overall performance....lighter rims reduce rotational intertia and unsprung mass.
Rotational interia is......well....intertia in general i guess can be described as "how much it resists changing motion" , i guess mass would in a way be a form of intertia....just as more force is needed to get an object with a lot of mass moving, a lot of torque would be needed to accelerate a wheel with large rotational intertia.

ideally, you want the smallest diameter, lightest and wide enough to fit the tires you want....but like i discussed with acuraracer111(1?) it's hella hard to find 215/45/15 or somthing like that for street tires.

tire choices for 16" rims appear to be of more variety so a light weight 16 would be a good compromise....some even say 16" tires can be lighter than 15s...keep in mind also, the weight farthest away from the center of rotation is going to have the most effect, hence, a light tire would be nice also.

Frqntflyer, what made you think you were right (not flaming, im just interested in your rationale)

 

To somewhat correct Sonic here....

The RTRs were running 15" Volks with full tread "rain" tires at Limerock. They were running 17" SSR Competitions with shaved tires for the dry.

I figured the 17s were 7" to 7.5" wide so they liked the added grip in the dry.

 

i have 17" RH C2 evos, when i bought them i wasnt really concered with wheel wieghts and performance, i just wanted the rims cause i love the way they look.. but now i am more concerned with performance and im about to go turbo.. Do u think the 17's will matter since i will have so much torque anyways? do u think if i downsized to a lighter smaller wheel it would be pointless cause i wouldnt get traction?

 

Well when they can run race tires, they ran 15's. Now they have to run the toyo street tires (which they hate) and probably changed their tire size. Still though, the same principle applies.

BTWBreaka, the POS is a PITA! I hate stuck bolts! :-P

 

dude do you like gas prices?... cause with those rims which are approximately 25 pounds before tires, add another 15-20 pounds with an inflated tire to each corner, and tell me this if you had some 7 inch whide 16's that are 8 pounds a peice, and with 15-20 pound tires. how much rolling weight are you saving. and the turbo lag with 17,s and stopping distance with 17's is just ****** horrid, i cant wait to get my 15 inch teg ls wheels and dump these racing hart cp10's in the trash.

 

damn C2 evos wiegh 25 lbs.. I had no idea.. damn that sucks *** cause the C2s are the only thing that attracts attention to my integra.. looks wise, the rims make the car u know.. but sheet if im loosing that much braking, acceleration, and even hurting gas mileage i guess i have to get something else.. should i just go ahead and switch the rims out now, and wait on the turbo thing, actually i bet i could get 1000 for the C2's with the tires on em.. i know u hate the Rota TE-37 knock offs, but for a 100 a rim are they really that bad, i mean with the money id be saving i could buy an extra 2 rims and equip them with drag radials..

 

Strong, light, inexpensive......choose two of the three.

I think i've seen two sets of mugen knock off rims break. If a rim is designed to copy another rim's style....the structure of the rim is also changed. But if the material isnt the same, the structural design of the rim will fail under too much stress...

In other words, they make a light rim by using less material (for argument sake) but the material is forged..which is strong. If they make a light rim, with the same design, cheaply(not forgeing) it's likely to break.


how much do the TE37 knock off weigh

 

From what I've heard, the Rota Circuit 8's are really damn good...

Strong: Nobody I've talked to has ever heard of a Rota C8 breaking
Lightweight: There are lighter wheels, but these aren't bad. 15x6.5's weigh 11.5lbs, 16x7's weigh 15.5lbs
Inexpensive: There is currently a groupbuy where you can get a set of four 16's for $517.00, and I have seen other similar prices in the past.

They are supposedly a knock-off of some other wheel, but I don't remember what it is, I generally don't keep up with things like that.

 

Sonic is ALWAYS right! but one more factor to consider for road racing, and that's control as it relates to sidewall height. To keep the same overall diameter as stock, by running extremely small rims, like 13 or 14, your sidewall height will be huge, which will NOT help your handling on a high speed road course unless the tires' sidewalls are stiff as a *****. The inverse is true as well, that is, with 17 or 18's, you'll have no sidewall whatsoever, which will force hard cornering onto the rims, in extreme cases.....not good.

As was mentioned, I think for our cars, a light 16" rim is about the best compromise, IMHO. You can still get <15 lb rims and tires with reasonably short sidewalls, but still plenty of tire to handle slight rollover without sacrificing traction. Hey, that sounds exactly like MY setup! (205/45/16 on SSR 16x7) I've even raced on this setup and done reasonably well for street tires!

 

are they still cast, or forged, clearly at the price im assuming cast.

if so , then good luck with your choice.....
im not saying IT WILL BREAK. im just saying, it's more likely to break then a light forged expensive rim....but like you said, you've never heard anyone break them.......take everything with a grain of salt. Chances are it wont break. i'll leave it at that.


[Modified by Ricehornet, 3:26 PM 6/10/2001]

 

MODACAR has the rota TE37 knock off and they are 12# for 15x6.5

That's a nice wheel, but, still, as with the Circuit 8 they are modeled after the "real" racing wheels.... Mugen/Racing Hart...
And the real racing wheels are made from super high quality material and using super high precision manufacturing techniques to yield super high strength wheels...
-compared to Rotas that are high strengh and lightweight.

Remember that the Rotas are most likely strong enough for most of us to never have any problems with them.
When you DO see problems, it will most likely be with 17" and larger wheels as the low profile tires needed for these sizes put more stress on the rims... that is bad.

Nice wheels (Rotas) and I like the fact that you can get really high quality tires and stay within your specific budget if you buy Rotas.
With these MUCH better tires you can now afford, you will greatly improve your braking and acceleration- more than with the 4# difference in wheel weight (between Mugen mf8 and Rota Circuit8).
(Actually that really depends on your choice of tire....no flames!)

I was able to get A032R's because the Circuit 8 is so inexpensive, and my autox times and track performance is in 'another class' (duh) and it is a lot more fun to be that much faster around the courses.
I found tires to be my limiting factor before the Advans which was very frustrating. Now I have yet to surpass their handling limits.. so there are other factors of driving/suspension to work on/mod/learn.

um, enough spewing.... go Rota! go 15"! and go Advan!

 

What do you guys think of Kosei K1s? Say, in 16" I am really strongly considering these.

 

kosei k1 last i heard is on the top portion of a track/autoX person's list cause they are decently light without compromising durability, pretty inexpensive, and not knockoff (i think), great set for race rims. or daily drivers if you prefer......them in gunmetal....mmmmm yummy

 

Those are the wheels I want, just need to find them for under $169 a wheel.

 

yes yes K1's are shotpeened for stress relief, now that is a good mfg. technique you like to hear about.
very strong wheels, good value.
16 or 15 is best... um,
15 is cheaper after tires too....

 

Ooooh! I want them even more!

 

They are knock off's of the japanese buddy club wheels.

 

Guys,

What do you think of the 17" Racing Hart M6? Apparently they weigh around 16.5lbs per wheel. Not bad for a 17" wheel I say. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

so going back to my original question...great replies btw. would i accelerate faster with 14" 18lb honda wheels? or those 17" or is it 18" 13 lb CP-035s.

 

I would have to say you'd accellerate better with the 14" rims because even though the weight is the same, the weight is closer to the hub than the 17" wheels. Then again, you might get better tires with better grip with the 17" wheels...

FWIW, I run 15" for the street/autocross, 14" for track schools. With my tire selection they both have the same rolling diameter, which I personally think is slightly more important than weight.

Matt