Ive been trying to install a timing belt on my gen2. I do everything by the Helms, by the book.

Here is the step from C-SpeedRacing

Once the new belt is in place, you will need to retension the tensioner pulley. To do so, place the crank bolt back on the crank and turn the crank counterclockwise three teeth and then tighten the tensioner pulley.

I line everything up to TDC, put the belt on. But then they say to turn the crank counter clockwise 3 teeth. Im assuming so this moves the slack to the tensioner side? But the only way you can turn the crank is if the crank pulley bolt is on. And to be able to rotate the crank counter clockwise via the bolt - the bolt has to be tightened. To tighten the bolt, you have to tighten the bolt clockwise. See the obvious problem here heh? It has to be tight or else you will unscrew the bolt by turning it counter clockwise. It only needs it to be slightly tight here - but even still, the engine turns in the wrong direction even with a friend standing on the brakes in gear.

Everytime I do this, when everything is all set and done, the crank always ends up being off a substantial amount from the cam gears at TDC. I think its this step that is screwing me up!

I need help. Give me some tips.

 

Well as long as everything is aligned when you put the timing belt on you will be fine if it moves everything clockwise. Just make sure the tensioner bolt is lose so it can move then move the crank with the pulley so that the cam or cams and the crank are at top dead center again, and then either have some one watch the cam sprocket or you could, and move the crankshaft so the sprocket moves three teethmarks counter clockwise and torque the tensioner bolt to 33 or 35 ft lbs (I can't remember right now) and you should be fine. When I do my timing belts I always put the key and crank pulley on, then I turn the pulley with my hands so then you don't have to worry about anything moving and if I can't turn the pulley with my hands, you can put the bolt in and just tighten it a little and then turn the crank. Well I hope this helps, Jordan.

 

The thing is I dont think it will be fine when you turn everything clockwise, because the belt is loose enough to allow slop between the crank and the cams, I think this is why its off alot by the time I get the tensioner tightened down. All I know is its aligned when I put the belt on and by the time the tensioner is tightened, its off by ~15 degrees from where I started. And Ive done this 4 times!

However I think I will try your crank pulley idea. Turning the engine over by hand instead of the bolt. I think that may be a good alternative. Thx

 

What I do is tighten the crank bolt on slightly with my impact gun (one quick shot) then turn the motor counterclockwise three teeth. Turning the motor back makes a huge difference in the tightness of the belt because all the slack will be at the tensioner. Then just hit the bolt again with the impact to take it off again. You said G2, I am assuming you mean Integra. You have to be carefull that the exhaust cam doesn't jump a tooth on you when you are sliding the belts on. To be sure the cams remain at TDC you can slide a 5.5mm pin in the cams to locate them at TDC. The proper pins (5.5mm) are hard to find, so just use the largest punch you can fit in there.

To be sure the belt doesn't jump a tooth, I always put small paint marks on the old belt and on both cam pulleys and the crank pulley. Then after removing the old belt, transfer over the paint marks over to the new belt (on the edge) and make sure they line up with the paint marks that are on the pulleys. Makes it a no brainer. After doing hundreds of timing belts, I have never had one off a tooth.

I also noticed that you are having prob's after turning the engine? Are you tightening the tensioner bolt down before turning the engine back? You have to tighten the bolt down, spin the engine back three teeth, loosen the tensioner bolt and then retighten it again. If you don't do it this way, the tensioner will just slacken the belt and the cams will jump a tooth or two.

 

I've just slipped the crank pulley on with it's key. Then I grab the pulley with my hands & turn the crank CCL to put the slack over at the tensioner. No need for the bolt to be in there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you tightening the tensioner bolt down before turning the engine back? You have to tighten the bolt down, spin the engine back three teeth, loosen the tensioner bolt and then retighten it again. If you don't do it this way, the tensioner will just slacken the belt and the cams will jump a tooth or two.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for all your feedback. The tensioning steps is where my problem is.

I was tightening the tensioner before the 3 teeth deal but it would be tighetened at the loose point, not providing any tension on the belt. So I stopped doing that step. What difference would that make?

 

When aligning the cams at perfect TDC with the crank at TDC - Is it better to use the UP MARKS or the TDC MARKS on the cams?

Ive been using the TDC marks but the fucked up thing is when they line up, the UP MARKS are not 90 degrees square with the head (straight up) they are more like 80 degrees from the head (pointed slightly forward). Am I doing something wrong or is that normal?

Heres a pic showing wtf Im talking about.

 

I didn't get to read everyone's post but I did agree with some points. Liquid paper on the old belt and pulleys helps line up the new belt, just a precaution. Yes turn the crank by hand with the key and crank pulley on but no bolt. It helps if you have a crank pulley tool to turn it. Or you can gun the bolt on and turn that with a ratchet, I like the other way better. The "UP" arrows on the cams are not as accurate as the notched roughly 90 degrees from them. Line up the intake pulley notch with the exhaust pulley notch and you're at TDC1. Good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When aligning the cams at perfect TDC with the crank at TDC - Is it better to use the UP MARKS or the TDC MARKS on the cams?</TD></TR></TABLE>I always thought the up-arrows are just to tell you the general location. The real cam alignment is laying a straightedge across both cam sprockets. All 4 of the little dot marks should all line up, along with the camshaft centers. Mine weren't perfect, but they were clearly only off by no more than 10% of one tooth.

 

I like that idea. Have you noticed the TDC mark on the exhaust cam isnt centered on the spoke, its off center. Is that right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like that idea...</TD></TR></TABLE>Wish I could take credit for it... I'll give credit to the Helm book.

I sorta remember the spokes that are cast into the sprockets aren't exactly squared up when the marks are aligned. But I don't remember which one or how much.

 

From Helms:

1)Turn the engine over 5-6 times counterclockwise
2)Remove cylinder head cover
3)Set Piston #1 to TDC (it's the white mark by itself, to the right of the three clustered marks) Also make sure the camshafts (if DOHC) are aligned with each other.
4)Loosen the tensioner adjusting bolt 180 degrees (14mm)
5)Rotate the crankshaft [b[counterclockwise[/b] 3 teeth on the camshaft pulley to create tension on the timing belt.
6)MAke sure the timing belt and the cam pulley are engaged securely.
7)Torque the adjusting bolt to 45 NM (33 lb-ft)
8)If the pulley bolt loosens while turning the crank, tighten it to specified torque 134lb-ft.

HTH
-Jeff C.

 

I have the helms thank you.

 

What I do is turn the cam gear clockwise then tighten the tensioner. Then I do on full crankturn counterclockwise and check if the engine is timed correctly, it never failed