r2ck_p

A couple of questions about the Spoon Stroker Kit, firstly is the Spoon Stroker Kit for the B16B made up of OEM Honda parts from the ITR. Are they exactly the same or have Spoon done something with them? As if they are, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy the ITR Crank, Rods, Pistons, Rings?

Also if this is the case, can I use my B16B CTR Pistons with the ITR Rods, crank, as I believe the B16B pistons are supposed to give higher compression. Not entirely sure on if this is true, but please advise.

What would be the best thing to do?

Thanks

Kataku2K3

I personally wouldn't waste my time or money with Spoon, Toda, or Mugen stuff. Even tho you only mentioned spoon they just take factory parts and charge a lot of them. Just find yourself an GSR/ITR crank, rods (aftermarket is always fine too), and whatever pistons you want (OE or forged). I wouldn't recommend CTR pistons with a setup like this for the simple fact that the C/R is too high for the streets unless you're running a mix of or even straight race gas. You're coming right up on 13:1 which will require an upgraded engine managment system among other things. If you do choose to stick with factory pistons and rods I would just toss some PR3's or P30's (both which are B16A pistons). They'll yield the 2nd and 3rd highest C/R's (with factory B series pistons) which can easily be tuned out on pump gas. If you want less than ~11.4-11.7:1 I'd recommend JDM ITR's or even USDM ITR pistons (P73-00's or P73-A0's). Just my $0.02 tho.

r2ck_p

The Spoon Stroker isn't to bad its only $1000 compared to the Jun strokers which are $3000 plus. If it helps I will be running Jun 3's with this setup and Jun springs, retainers and Cam Gears. Will be looking to tune with Hondata or AEM ECU.

Also fuel at the pump here in the UK is up to 98RON, so been running on this for 3 years now.

Kataku2K3

Well it's really up to you then, around here it still would be cheaper to buy a GSR/ITR crank, rods, etc. and build the setup yourself. The Spoon kit isn't going to make your motor any "better" than it would be with OE parts, in fact if you really wanted to build a nice NA setup I would sleeve your block up to 84-86mm and toss in a GSR crank with some aftermarket pistons/rods. As for your grade of gas that may support a bit more compression but it's still only the research octane. I can't tell you want will work and what won't because we really don't build all that many super high compression NA street motors anymore. My guess is that you'd still be pushing it with CTR pistons and a B18C crank.

spoonek9

The Spoon stroker kits is made up of OEM ITR components which Spoon balances.

Kataku2K3

and charges more for, you can have a factory rotational assembly balanced... Again he can do what he wants but just because it's Spoon doesn't make it better.

StorminMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kataku2K3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well it's really up to you then, around here it still would be cheaper to buy a GSR/ITR crank, rods, etc. and build the setup yourself. The Spoon kit isn't going to make your motor any "better" than it would be with OE parts, in fact if you really wanted to build a nice NA setup I would sleeve your block up to 84-86mm and toss in a GSR crank with some aftermarket pistons/rods. As for your grade of gas that may support a bit more compression but it's still only the research octane. I can't tell you want will work and what won't because we really don't build all that many super high compression NA street motors anymore. My guess is that you'd still be pushing it with CTR pistons and a B18C crank.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know about that. Have you actually priced an ITR crank with four rods? I would guess it would come to more than $1000.

Kataku2K3

Maybe if you're talking about brand new from the factory but not if they're used. Why would you buy four brand new factory rods anyway?

r2ck_p

I haven’t priced the bits from Honda here in the UK, but when I got a quote a while ago on some 81.25 EK9 Pistons they wanted £600. I ended up purchasing them from the US for about £200 Delivered if not cheaper. The work was done as I had some scores in the bores due to bad servicing etc... in Japan. So it was bored slightly to 81.25mm.

If Spoon balances the ITR bits to create there stroker kit then its probably going to be worth it. Also Spoon kit consists of Crank, Rods, Pistons (81mm or 81.25mm), Pins, Rings, Head Gasket, so doesn't seem to bad for $1000. The price of the Spoon Kits seems to become really cheap recently sure they used to be similar cost to the Jun kits. Also I don't really want to use second hand parts, seeing as I am spending alot of money on this build want to do it right with all brand new items.

What would the Spoon kit put my compression to?

spoonek9

That kits has cost that much since it came out I believe. Compression is 11.3:1 and it does come with Spoon's 2 ply head gasket.

r2ck_p

11.3:1 , would that be the stock C/R of the ITR??

Also if Spoon balances the parts of the stroker kit, isn't this already done at Honda.

I have been told not to bother getting Jun Cams as for the costs the gains will be minimul compared to my stock CTR Cams. I was advised to get Cam Gears and tune the stock cams up, put in the stroker kit and tune everything up with a AEM ECU. What do you guys think???

Would I see much gains??

kblus711

i will be the first to say uber-data

r2ck_p

I havn't a clue on the ECU side, so don't really wanna play with the uber-data as I will have to create my own programs etc....

Thinking the AEM as, my Honda Tuner uses it, and he will be doing the work.

Kataku2K3

The stock compression of a USDM ITR is 10.6:1 and 11.1:1 for the JDM ITR. You are right as far as the balancing goes, the ITR is factory balanced which is exactly why Spoon isn't really doing too much besides putting a kit together. Again you can say that you don't wanna run second hand parts but spending $1000 on a buildup really isn't that much at all. We build high boost street turbo setups that cost 10 times that (motor alone) and produce atleast 5 times the power with USED factory parts (crank, etc.) and motor reliability really isn't the issue. As far as the tuning I haven't worked with uberdata so I can't really tell ya. We have never had good luck with the AEM and I really don't like it. Sometimes the car will be running great, other times it runs like ****. For most basic NA setups Hondata in my opinion is the way to go. It's simple and gets the job done. If you want to spend lots of money on a full standalone which would be extreme overkill on a setup like this then go with FAST or Motec.

spoonek9

If you brought the parts separately it would cost around $1650, that's in the US, not sure what it would cost in England. I'm trying to find out some more info on the stroker package.

As far as ECUs go, I'd try to get my hands on a stock ITR ecu.

r2ck_p

Would the stock ITR ECU be sufficient??

Also the Stroker Kit from TakaKaira is $1041 + $444 P&P to me in the UK. Do you know of anywhere cheaper.

Here is what it includes,



I want to get my car ready for the 1/4 mile next year and so want it to be quick, will the Stroker, Cam Gears on my stock EK9 Cams and ECU tuning make much differance??

Kataku2K3

A stock JDM ITR ECU would probably get you by if you opt'd to go with a setup like this. I'd really probably say that AEM is even overkill not because of what it can do but more just the price. Hondata is really the way to go as it's simple yet completely tuneable. All you need is the base S100 and you'll be able to tune the max out of your motor. They don't make that kit with oversized pistons? I would really check into going 81.25mm if possible just so you have fresh cylinder walls to work with. I really don't like simply honing the cylinders but if that's fine with you then I wouldn't worry about it. Good Luck


Modified by Kataku2K3 at 8:33 AM 12/9/2004

spoonek9

When you stroke the B16B you will essentially be making a B18CR or ITR. The ITR ECU should work well and is probably the best stock ECU for your setup.

That is about the cheapest your going to find it anywhere, trust me I've looked everywhere. The Spoon stroker is by far the cheapest stroker kit I've seen.

rhd

um...used GSR crank, stock rods, topline pistons...you can put that together for under $500, EASY

r2ck_p

Great!! Thanks for the help guys.

Also one more quick question, what are the disadvantages of using the stroker kit?

vteczone

i live in asia and getting the used oem parts is just cheap.with US$1000 i could get 2 complete JDM ITR short block... and probably 3 shortblocks if u r in japan.. i personally think that buying any japanese stroker kits is just a waste of money.. all they use are oem parts balanced them n either make a custom piston or uses deckplate and you pay **** load of $ for their name.. why dont you spend that $1000 on aftermarket crank like scat ,some rods n aftermarket pistons and yield more than just 1.8litre if you get the 95mm crank for eg. that is just my opinion...

WAFFLES

OEM Parts come very balanced from the factory. My ITR pistons couldn't be anymore balanced and this is coming from my machine shop, same with the crank. The rods were the only thing slightly off balance and it was barely.

You aren't paying Spoon to balance an already balanced part. You are buying a Spoon wrapper and box to go with your parts.

vteczone

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You aren't paying Spoon to balance an already balanced part. You are buying a Spoon wrapper and box to go with your parts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

my point exactly..

notstock93

Is it just me, or doesn't this mod completely defeat the whole purpose of buying a B16B (super dooper rod-ratio and Honda's shortest stroke).

I mean...I call me crazy. Not to mention spoon is on my **** list because of their prices. Its insane that they charge 140 bucks for shift bushings and 110 for spark plugs. I mean....honestly.

Kataku2K3

I take it back, just do it. Spoon is awesome and you'll have way more power! Sorry for the sarcastic remark but I think you get the point now...