something to put between rod bearing and rod? :)
11-18-2006, 11:38 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: something to put between rod bearing and rod? :) (mmuller)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">clean with preferebly a crosshatch (rod end) and lightly coat with oil</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok thanks you very much
Ok thanks you very much
Trending Topics
11-18-2006, 01:44 PM
#8
Mad Scientist
Re: (clayne)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clayne »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why bother marring the surface when proper cleaning suffices?</TD></TR></TABLE>
personal preference, if you can improve on things; why not.
No marring, light crosshatch pattern should i say. just like oem
personal preference, if you can improve on things; why not.
No marring, light crosshatch pattern should i say. just like oem
11-18-2006, 09:42 PM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tachikawa Shi, Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 2,294
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: (mmuller)
The crosshatch on the rod big end is not for cleaning, it was for resizing then honing, do not take any more metal away. Do not lube behind bearing, use an assembly lube on the crank journals. If you like you can get some plastigage and check the oil clearances on all of your journal to bearing surfaces, ask the autozone guy for plastigage. If you do not want to buy assembly lube then oil will be fine but disable fuel and crank the engine for a bit to prime the oil throughout the engine before starting your fresh rebuild with no oil pumped through it yet.
Master Tech with many years of engine rebuilding (back in the day, back in the US)
EDIT:
You can also dip the piston into a coffee can of hot oil to prelube the wrist pins, move the pistons about a bit to get oil into the wrist pin to piston area similar to what you thought you were supposed to do with the rod big end. Wipe the piston top to clear off as much oil as you can the lower smoke time on startup.
Master Tech with many years of engine rebuilding (back in the day, back in the US)
EDIT:
You can also dip the piston into a coffee can of hot oil to prelube the wrist pins, move the pistons about a bit to get oil into the wrist pin to piston area similar to what you thought you were supposed to do with the rod big end. Wipe the piston top to clear off as much oil as you can the lower smoke time on startup.
11-19-2006, 07:24 AM
#10
Mad Scientist
Re: (Duane_in_Japan)
i DO NOT mean take material out. Drill wire brush brush WILL NOT take material nor cause marring on the rod .
Crosshatching big rod ends has a benefit which im not going to get into .
different build preferences does not mean its wrong, different strokes for different folks..
Crosshatching big rod ends has a benefit which im not going to get into .
different build preferences does not mean its wrong, different strokes for different folks..
11-19-2006, 07:43 AM
#12
Mad Scientist
Re: (white90rexsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white90rexsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The wire brush IS removing metal from the rod. Depending on your clearence, it could creat extra clearence and create a problem</TD></TR></TABLE>
omg. have you tried it or your just thinking it will? i have been doing that for long. try it youll see. You obviously have to use common sense and use a SOFT wire brush.
the crosshatch that im talking about is not like cylinder crosshatch.
I use a wire brush to get carbon off combustion chambers and valves.. go figure i must be ******* some serious shiiet up.
omg. have you tried it or your just thinking it will? i have been doing that for long. try it youll see. You obviously have to use common sense and use a SOFT wire brush.
the crosshatch that im talking about is not like cylinder crosshatch.
I use a wire brush to get carbon off combustion chambers and valves.. go figure i must be ******* some serious shiiet up.
11-19-2006, 07:54 AM
#13
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: centreville, va, 20121
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (mmuller)
Im not saying it will mess it up, I am saying that using a wire brush is removing metal. I took a cylinder block service class last semester and they went through reconditioning rods and never once did they use a wire brush on a drill. We always used denatured alcohol with some lint free shop rags, that always cleaned them up great.
Also the valve face is not a precise area, such as a rod.
Also the valve face is not a precise area, such as a rod.
11-19-2006, 11:06 AM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California/New Zealand, USA
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Duane_in_Japan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Duane_in_Japan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can also dip the piston into a coffee can of hot oil to prelube the wrist pins, move the pistons about a bit to get oil into the wrist pin to piston area similar to what you thought you were supposed to do with the rod big end. Wipe the piston top to clear off as much oil as you can the lower smoke time on startup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Funny, I read the above as: "also you can dip the piston into a cup of hot coffee to prelube the wrist pins."
Probably due to my subliminal need for coffee this morning.
Funny, I read the above as: "also you can dip the piston into a cup of hot coffee to prelube the wrist pins."
Probably due to my subliminal need for coffee this morning.
11-19-2006, 11:07 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California/New Zealand, USA
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (mmuller)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
omg. have you tried it or your just thinking it will? i have been doing that for long. try it youll see. You obviously have to use common sense and use a SOFT wire brush.
the crosshatch that im talking about is not like cylinder crosshatch.
I use a wire brush to get carbon off combustion chambers and valves.. go figure i must be ******* some serious shiiet up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, even though I only use a topical cleaner - there is no way that a soft wire brush is taking off enough metal to change clearances significantly.
omg. have you tried it or your just thinking it will? i have been doing that for long. try it youll see. You obviously have to use common sense and use a SOFT wire brush.
the crosshatch that im talking about is not like cylinder crosshatch.
I use a wire brush to get carbon off combustion chambers and valves.. go figure i must be ******* some serious shiiet up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, even though I only use a topical cleaner - there is no way that a soft wire brush is taking off enough metal to change clearances significantly.
11-19-2006, 11:20 AM
#16
Mad Scientist
Re: (white90rexsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white90rexsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not saying it will mess it up, I am saying that using a wire brush is removing metal. I took a cylinder block service class last semester and they went through reconditioning rods and never once did they use a wire brush on a drill. We always used denatured alcohol with some lint free shop rags, that always cleaned them up great.
Also the valve face is not a precise area, such as a rod.</TD></TR></TABLE>
seriously just because they did not use a wire brush on the rods, it does mean its wrong. plenty people do it this way.
i dont think you understood what i ment about using a wire wheel on chambers and valves.
i clean the whole valve with a wire wheel, and the chambers that well are Aluminum and with your reasoning they should get reaaally chewed up with the wires..
Also the valve face is not a precise area, such as a rod.</TD></TR></TABLE>
seriously just because they did not use a wire brush on the rods, it does mean its wrong. plenty people do it this way.
i dont think you understood what i ment about using a wire wheel on chambers and valves.
i clean the whole valve with a wire wheel, and the chambers that well are Aluminum and with your reasoning they should get reaaally chewed up with the wires..
11-19-2006, 03:08 PM
#19
Mad Scientist
Re: (B e v - T e c h I n c.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B e v - T e c h I n c. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DON'T USE ANYTHING!!! just clean it, and put the bearing in, if you lube it up, it's asking for trouble...</TD></TR></TABLE>
care to explain?
damn everyone likes to argue here
care to explain?
damn everyone likes to argue here
11-19-2006, 04:04 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California/New Zealand, USA
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (s10cky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s10cky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is why some peoples motors seem to last longer than others. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd say it has more to do with paying attention to detail rather than a particular method.
What mmueller said about his method isn't that much of an issue and won't harm anything - it's just what he prefers. But by no means is it going to create an unreliable engine.
I'd say it has more to do with paying attention to detail rather than a particular method.
What mmueller said about his method isn't that much of an issue and won't harm anything - it's just what he prefers. But by no means is it going to create an unreliable engine.
11-19-2006, 05:00 PM
#22
Mad Scientist
Re: (s10cky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s10cky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is why some peoples motors seem to last longer than others. </TD></TR></TABLE>
if you dont have anything constructive to add, stay out of this.
care to explain why this comment?
if you dont have anything constructive to add, stay out of this.
care to explain why this comment?
11-19-2006, 05:29 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: CAPITAL CITY Tallahassee D.S., Florida, U.S.A
Posts: 2,368
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: (mmuller)
Seen muller build ****.. he is a perfectionist and everything is done right it is also very reliable... maybe sometimes people should just listen and stop being stubborn
11-19-2006, 08:45 PM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tachikawa Shi, Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 2,294
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: (DBL)
If you put oil behind the bearing from the start you will escentially create a small shim (of oil) and push the bearing closer towards the crank journal, this will give less of an oil clearance for normal oil pressure to lube the rod bearing where lube is needed. If you installed a new cam, your engine will not see idle for many minutes, you have to break in the cam, fast.
This is another reason to use plastigage and insp oil clearance prior to final assembly, it is also a guide to tell you if clearance is too great that you need to turn the crank and use undersize bearings (.010 under).
When you wipe the back of the new bearing dry and the rod big end dry do not wipe the protective grey (?) coating off of the face of the new bearing, it is a 'brake in' coating.
Most folks measure in 1 thousanths of an inch .001, I use 10 thousanths .0001 so I like to be sure, ultimetly most items .001 out of spec (or less) is allowable.
Its true, a new clean engine with proper clearances and a good break in lube and proper oil priming prior to start up, proper cam break in procedure, quick oil and filter change, proper ring break in procedure and the list goes on and on will make for a better rebuild. Keep the garden hose near by to top off the radiator so the air bubbles can escape a little better by having that extra inch of water (static) pressure to assist with bleeding.
This is another reason to use plastigage and insp oil clearance prior to final assembly, it is also a guide to tell you if clearance is too great that you need to turn the crank and use undersize bearings (.010 under).
When you wipe the back of the new bearing dry and the rod big end dry do not wipe the protective grey (?) coating off of the face of the new bearing, it is a 'brake in' coating.
Most folks measure in 1 thousanths of an inch .001, I use 10 thousanths .0001 so I like to be sure, ultimetly most items .001 out of spec (or less) is allowable.
Its true, a new clean engine with proper clearances and a good break in lube and proper oil priming prior to start up, proper cam break in procedure, quick oil and filter change, proper ring break in procedure and the list goes on and on will make for a better rebuild. Keep the garden hose near by to top off the radiator so the air bubbles can escape a little better by having that extra inch of water (static) pressure to assist with bleeding.
11-20-2006, 04:49 AM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California/New Zealand, USA
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (.EnzoSpeed)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .EnzoSpeed »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've never seen a used rod where the original crosshatch from the original hone was not visible.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're kidding right?
You're kidding right?