Scott_Tucker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You have a good point about the oil change interval. My wife paid 75k for her MB. MB recomends an oil change every 12k miles. I have it changed between MB recommended intervals. I have no doubt that synthetic oil will last a long time. One thing though...it still gets dirty. That is my justification for changing it more often. Not only that, in my mind it is a cheap insurance policy... My wife and I had a huge discussion about this. I said, why pay 75k for a car, then go cheap?

While nobody here cares about MB, I still use Mobil 1 in my Prelude. Change the oil 3-4k miles. If it is a waste, then its on me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I use Mobil 1 too. It is good stuff. It's not formulated the same as Red Line or some of the other synthetics but it is just as good in your daily driver. The chief chemist at Red Line, Roy Howell, told me to put Mobil 1 in my car because it's cheaper than Red Line and for other than race cars it does just as good a job.

Scott_Tucker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You have a good point about the oil change interval. My wife paid 75k for her MB. MB recomends an oil change every 12k miles. I have it changed between MB recommended intervals. I have no doubt that synthetic oil will last a long time. One thing though...it still gets dirty. That is my justification for changing it more often. Not only that, in my mind it is a cheap insurance policy... My wife and I had a huge discussion about this. I said, why pay 75k for a car, then go cheap?

While nobody here cares about MB, I still use Mobil 1 in my Prelude. Change the oil 3-4k miles. If it is a waste, then its on me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I use Mobil 1 too. It is good stuff. It's not formulated the same as Red Line or some of the other synthetics but it is just as good in your daily driver. The chief chemist at Red Line, Roy Howell, told me to put Mobil 1 in my car because it's cheaper than Red Line and for other than race cars it does just as good a job.

fleabag

Does anyone know the differences between AutoRX, Seafoam and BG44k? (yes I know this is an old thread but I don't see the harm in bumping it)

J-MANNN

I am assuming you have all read through the articles within this website: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

A lot of the B series guys around Toronto run 5W40 for tracks days or 5W30 on the street. A lot of people argue/compare the synthetic based full synthetic oils Vs. a natural based synthetic (Mobil 1, ect). A lot of the most experienced people always recommended staying with AMS Oil, (In Canada they have a 15000 mile version with a normal bottle and a 30000 mile version which has flames on the bottle, that hast to be worth a few whp....), RedLine, Elf, Motul (their higher grade race synthetic), they said Motul's regular synthetic is horrible, And Royal Purple. I believe all of the synthetics are grouped 1-5, with 1-3 being natural based synthetics and groups 4-5 being the best ones.

If someone that understands the exact difference within the oil's bases could chime in that would be great!

FlewByU352

I use Mobil 1 5w-30 full synthetic and a HAMP oil filter changing it every 5,000 miles. I always wait at idle until the temp gauge registers and then I drive keeping the RPM's low until a few minutes after it reaches normal operating temperature before I think about driving it hard. Hopefully this works for me to keep a long lasting motor.

todahead

i use motorkote in every oil change years now.
always with amsoil
also amsoil has zinc that thing is good for honda engines.

autocraig

The nano-based Everglide is the best for me. It's the first moly-graphene oil additive that I've used. The noise and overheating issues are now gone.

Kevinio

Don't use additives. If it works that well oil companies would already implemented it. In the beginning it seems to work, but your oil won't held as long as the original. dbiker207 is right, oil gets dirty with gas, soot (and so on), otherwise it would last way longer (but still he should act normal). The synthetic oils of these day just cracked around 190 degrees Celsius, heat is not that big issue anymore.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

I started using this out of sheer curiosity and the fact that most reviews were very positive. I'm a believer in Everglide. My engine is much smoother and quieter. Acceleration has increased slightly also which is a huge plus.

I used to think this way but the reality is that fuel and oil additives are always evolving and lately the market has been churning out some really good stuff. It's easy to buy into the belief that additives are simply snake oil, especially since some of them are pricey, but if you do some research you'll see that there are some out there that really do work and in the grand scheme of things could be beneficial to your wallet especially if you plan on keeping your car a while. But don't take my word for it. You need to try it out for yourself to see if it is worth it to you.

Kevinio

I've seen some tests with additives here at work, but some of them held 60% shorter than the original ones. But in the beginning the resitance was more less.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

Are you saying that some additives shorten the life of the oil itself or are you saying that the additives don't last long? Either way you do bring up a valid point and now I think I should get my oil analyzed.

TomCat39

This is where I'm at, but with the history of the oil additive industry in the states, it's really hard to get beyond that stigma so I suspect some quality products are only accepted outside the USA.

Here is some interesting tribology reports regarding nanoparticles and the behavior changes from them.

Experimental Analysis of Tribological Properties of Biolubricant with Nanoparticle Additive - ScienceDirect

Tribological properties of Al2O3 nanoparticles as lubricating oil additives

Preparation of NiMoO2S2 nanoparticle and investigation of its tribological behavior as additive in lubricating oils

EmeraldInsight

Now I am not sure exactly what these nano particles are but it would be interesting to find out.

One such alleged product that I've had no ill effects from is the Xado ceramic nano particle additive. I personally think it's kept my high mileage manual transmissions going including keeping the Input Shaft Bearing tight and smooth. But could be my imagination with the changing to a quality lubricant and molybdenum.

Finding scientific data to back up the claims is much more challenging as in the states, it's discredited without science to prove or disprove from the established stigma of snake oil.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

I know for Everglide EGS the nanoparticle they use is graphene. Below is a link to an article which discusses its use and compares it to other lubricants.

Graphene layers dramatically reduce wear and friction on sliding steel surfaces | Argonne National Laboratory

Also below is a link to BITOG where they discuss Everglide EGS. I'm following this thread because a forum member is interested in testing the product to see if the amount of graphene included in the bottle is actually responsible for contributing to its reputed claims.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...pics/4357269/2

Would you happen to know if this Xado product can be used in a transmission with a clutch type LSD? I'm interested in trying this out.

TomCat39

To be honest, I don't know, and I do know contacting the company will net you a salesman, not a technician. And we all know how salesmen operate......

Being wet clutches are suppose to have friction, I would think reducing that would be a negative effect.

The UK website where it's a lot more prevelent, it states it does not impede wet clutch operation:

https://xado.co.uk/revitalizants/ex1...otor-equipment

and

https://xado.co.uk/news-new-kind-of-transmission-oil

The second link they say it's the "best" for transmissions with an LSD.

And I do know Xado was TUV tested and listed which is the German testing program.

BrakeExpert

DO not use addetives. And remember this is an all aluminum engine, don't use that 'high mileage' oil at the stores either.

Best oil is going to be synthetic. The "real" synthetics (made in a lab) are Mobil1, Redline, Royal Purple and Amsoil.

Through my experience Amsoil is the best, though you gotta buy it off the internet, theyre not stocked at your local Advance Auto Parts like Royal Purple and Mobil1 are. Any of those are good. Most crucial is changing the oil AND filter every 7500 miles as Honda reccomends. If you use cheap off the shelf filters, I would suggest 5000 miles myself.

Remember, those oils that they say run 25,000 miles, yes, some will and I've done it. The filter will not last that long though.

k20z1ej1

amsoil does have some select dealers here and there. my local napa is an amsoil dealer and believe it or not, they sell it for less than amsoil does online. i get the 75w-90 severe gear for $15.80 per quart and i dont have to pay for shipping

TomCat39

You have not spoken with the true oil guru's, Mobile 1 is not great oil any more. It burns off way faster than just about every synthetic out there. Royal Purple is some random small company so I am not confident in their R&D funding. Redline is probably okay but being their transmission fluid eats the plastic bearing cages, I am not confident in their brand. Amsoil seems to be a decent oil but over priced imo.

The guru's today say the current top dog synthetic is Pennzoil Ultra Platinum.

It really is the best at the moment based on oil analysis and the true oil guru's that follow this stuff like no tomorrow.

Oh, and it's not an all aluminum engine, the sleeves are steel and the rings are steel. The high mileage oil is good as it's high in zinc (ZDDP) which helps the wear of the steel sleeves and rings. Also lets not forget the camshaft is steel and the tappets are steel. There is more than just aluminum in the engine.

And lastly, do use additives but do your homework first. i.e. Molyslip molybdenum Manual transmission additive is an excellent additive to reduce wear on bearings and other friction parts.

Usually don't need additives for engine oil as the additive package is already in the oil, but in some cases an additive like Lucas Oil Thickener helps reduce bearing wear by keeping a little more oil on the bearings after shut off etc.

DCFIVER

Penzoil Platinum is just a name brand that is popular with the common folk.( I admit I like it) Its not new. BITOG has been preaching it for the better part of 10 years. Dont get caught up in name barnds,thats worthless info.

What you need to look for are specifications. API specs are trash(well theyve been in the past. SN is actually pretty good) but its still sub par to manufacturers specs. They spend millions in R&D on oil alone, for every engine that is developed.

IMO for almost any Honda engine,past to present HT-06 is the best oil you can get. (I dont yet know the spec for the new turbo Civics) Almost every manufacture has a spec oil they require,some rely on API. GMs dexos1 is the most stringent spec on the market right now. It even surpasses HTO-06.

Man I can go on for hours. I dint learn from online "oil gurus" My info is first hand knowledge and training from guys like Jay Buckely at Fram, Derek Guinane at Castrol and Kevin "Crash" McCartney a gentleman considered the thee authority on modern lubrication and tribology.


Just stick with quality and you cant go wrong. Additives ARE useless,but if they make your heart pitter patter,then buy them to your content.

beeza

Cerma is the most superior that I have found.It is quite incredible stuff.It is USA made.If you realise how good the stuff is,you will want it but the hardest part it seems for many is to see that.
Cerma is not an additive,the oil is a catalyst for the cerma,they do not mix.It basically ceramic coats the working parts in the crankcase.
Seafoam to flush the crankcase out from time to time and 10w-40 Nulon full synthetic with a hamp oil fliter.
And Morey's upper cylinder lubricant/fuel injector cleaner.

Kevinio

The oil itself.

TomCat39

That was the point, I was under the impression that for synthetic, The Pennzoil was the best quality at the moment.

You mention a grade HT-06 but don't indicate what oil is that quality. I also don't ever recall seeing such a grade on any of the oil bottles I've looked at. So it seems a bit more obscure to learn.

It's not about brand loyalty but know which brand is producing the best oil at the time.

i.e. for older Honda manual transmissions the best fluid is Torco MTF or RTF depending on the application. Will that be the case 3 years from now, maybe, maybe not.

So if Pennzoil Platinum synthetic is not the best, which one is the best today? That's what is wanted to be known. Which one handles the 20,000 kilometer oil change intervals without issue and still provides the best protection etc etc.

The comment about additives is to break the old school tunnel vision as they can be helpful in some situations, but first one has to educate themselves to know if the situation calls for an additive and which additive is actually worthwhile.

Additives are like cell phones, only 10% are worth anything, the rest is junk. It's just a matter of learning the 10% and the appropriate time to use the 10% if at all.

But do tell, who is making the most superior synthetic oil for our cars today? That is what is helpful to know.

Gearspeed-Performance

iTrader: (1)

Purol.

beeza

Perfectly worded.

DCFIVER

Frankly,brand loyalty is how most choose their oil. I was pointing out that brand alone is a poor indicator of oil quality,but good brands,are generally good. Once you start to get into pure group IV oils,the playing field is evened out,with one brand edging out another in different test sequences.

HTO-06 is not a grade. It is a specification. All oil bottles are labeled as to which specification they are approved for(in addition to API specs) HTO-06 is the oil Honda developed specifically for the turbo 2.3 engine. It is one of the most robust specs on the market today,with wide ranging applications. Dexos1 (by GM) is another ,extremely stringent specification. You find only quality oil meets these specs.



May as well ask which is better,Shell or Chevron. Once you get into higher quality oils(Group IV) the answer varies. Is this for a European,Asian or Domestic vehicle? One oil will not adequately work for all 3 under the worst conditions. Is this a gas or diesel engine? Low HTHS requirements or high HTHS requirements?The best answer is to use the oil spec that was developed for your engine. If no spec exists,use a quality brand that suits you. This is the best answer for the layman.

For the guy who likes to dig a little deeper, SN rated oil is very good. SN is a general spec and you can hardly go wrong with it. But manufactures specs are better still. The only spec Honda has right now(that Im aware of) is HTO-06. and its a good one. Use it.


See above.



There is so much factual,and misinformation online,that things can get confusing quickly.

The undisputable fact is,the best oil to use for your car is the one that was developed for your engine.

TomCat39

While I was at Canadian Tire and took a peak at the label of both the Pennzoil Platinum and
Platinum Ultra.

Both have the HTO-6 specification. And interestingly enough the Platinum had the Dexos1 specification but I did not notice that on the Ultra.

I tend to use the Platinum but it appears that I was correct in passing along what I had heard that Pennzoil's Synthetic at the moment is one of the best synthetics out right now based off of the specifications and oil analysis.

For the time being, I am satisfied with the Platinum for my vehicles when they don't consume or leak oil.

It's cheaper for me to go 20,000 between oil changes which is only possible with high quality synthetic.

Of note, I change the oil filter every 10,000 and use AC Delco filters after reading a review of a person who took the time to disassemble a bunch of brands and types of oil filters and found the Delco's has a superior internal design that prevented dirty oil from seeping back into the sump unlike even the wix filters.

Thanks for the additional information, I trust my sources but your confirmation doesn't hurt either.

Platinum Ultra:


Platinum:


I notice they state it exceeds HTO-6 on the Platinum (what I use) not just meets the requirements. I do not believe they are legally able to post that unless it exceeds those specifications.

I suspect this is probably the highest quality oil money can buy right now, and I suspect it's not cheap.

Took a moment to find the site, www.pur-ol.com