ES=
Prothane=

I have the ES master kit on my CRX. I installed it over 2 yrs ago. The ride is excelent. They do their job for sure. The only problem I see is that the front LCA where the shock bolts up at the bushing is starting to deform. So I call ES and ask about their warranty because I want to make a claim. Well come to find out that ES only offers a 2yr warranty. I had bought the kit over 2 yrs ago so no claim for me . I then call prothane and ask about their warranty. They say their bushings are under warranty as long as you own the car . If I had know that I would have gone with prothane from the start. I will probably get the prothane kit eventually and do away with the ES junk.
Summit has the lowst prices on the ES master kits. Their like 130 shipped. I'd go with prothane though.
http://www.prothane.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have the black master kit... no squeeks whatsoever... not the only one that squeeks a LITTLE bit is the rear bushing on the front lower control arm but I think that's because I overtightened it a bit... I got some SERIOUS vibration out of it once when it was REALLY REALLY COLD... but other than that I'd have to say it's the best suspension mod you can do... seriously...

I had eibach prokit springs kyb struts and Susp. Tech. sway bars on my old sentra and the rear bushing on the front lower control arm removed more body roll than ALL of those components did on my sentra combined. SERIOUSLY.

as for the engine mounts... the vibration is worst at first... then YOU HAVE TO RETIGHTEN EVERYTHING... or it'll be that way forever... if you re-tighten everything (i'd recomend using a small dab of locktite on the threads of ALL the bolts) the vibration is not that bad... I have had a choppy idle since I did them so I'm not sure if that because of them...

I have also ordered all new stock mounts for the front so I'm going to put JUST those in (take out the es bushings) and see what that does... then I'll re-intall the es bushings again to see if it was my torn front stock bushing that's the sorce of the choppiness.

They did give me MUCH better throttle response and MUCH more torque steer than I had before but over all I'm not THAT impressed...

as far as the shifter bushings are concerned... they do NOTHING... at all just like was stated before... it's the short-shifter being installed in conjunction w/them that is making everyone think it does something... they don't.

the master kit is worth it but a MAJOR pain to install... I'm still not done and I have access to a lift and press.... (more my/my friends laziness then it's that difficult just time consuming.)

As far as longevity goes.. I had the red ones on my susp. tech sway bars on my old car for over 2 years and there was NO sign of damage...

the best advice I can give anyone is when you order ANY of these bushings.. order extra grease FROM ES... they use a VERY good grease which is great for there bushings... You have to use A LOT of the grease... there is no such thing as too much... it'll just squirt out if there is then you just wipe off the excess... and CLEAN THE CRAP out of ALL mating surfaces... other wise sand will tear them up and squeeks are MUCH more likely...

overall I'd have to say just the hand feel of the black ones is better than the red so if you're ordering new and aren't that fashion concious (I like the look of the black ones better anyway) DEFINATELY get the black ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I got mine done in a few weeks... No press.. just some oil and a torch
As for grease, i talked to es and suspension.com go to a marine store, and get marine grease, its water and salt water proof, wont wash away. Thats what the es great really is.

 

Quick question I have yet to determine:

Do they make the motor mount inserts in....BLACK ??
I've heard they do but never seen them for sale....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Beave0101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Quick question I have yet to determine:

Do they make the motor mount inserts in....BLACK ??
I've heard they do but never seen them for sale....</TD></TR></TABLE>
suspension.com Yes they do, I have them

 

dito... all my bushings are in black... except the rta bushings but I want to sell those and get black ones...

anyone interested?

*edit*un-used red rta bushings... PN16.7106*/edit*

 

Here's some more warning regarding the use of polyurethane (and the like) in the trailing arm bushing.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=493789

Summary: the trailing arm bushing needs to bele to displace left and right, and the polyurethane bushings do not allow this, causing suspension bind under high lateral loads. Basically the geometry is altered.

I realize that someone already mentioned this, but everyone seems to just ignore it.

 

Hmm..I have the es trailing arm bushings, whats the worth that can happen?

 

Scott (RR98itr) claims "big problems". He is probably refering to a mid corner snap oversteer and a meeting with the wall, but stopping a moving part from moving is never a good thing (think shock travel). I have really puzzled over the physics involved yet, so I can't give a direct answer.

 

crap, i just put the damn thing in...no stocker left, and no money for mugen now

 

thanks to all who applied to this. My car has just under 200k miles and I expect a very noticable difference when I have the master ES kit and RTA bushings installed at the end of this month. I willl be sure to give a before and after response, even thought most here are looking for long term use opinions.

The main thing I have got out of this, and have heard by many mechanics, is proper greasing of the bushings and proper grease used.

I will try and contact ES to get a definate response to them in the difference b/t the blakc and red bushings. I will also bring up their competitors better warranty, from what we have heard from others.

 

For the NSX the bushings are made of a very hard rubber and don't really have any air gaps to deflect aside from the normal deflection commonly associated from rubber bushing's bind. I doubt that a set of urethane would do anything to improve on this vehicle if driven on street.

As far as my experience these bushings. I've had my set on my DA chassis for 5 years. I've had to dissassemble them every year to re-lubricate them. I will plan on installing new bushings and install Zerk fittings to help me lubricate them w/o dissassembly in the future. Since I had been removing and inspecting them every year they have shown signs of wear but that has been due to lack of lubrication and the presence of dirt/road grime. The trailing arm bushings are a real pain and involve burning them out with a torch. On the DC integras and the gen 5/6 civics I recommend that people install crank gear timing cover plates to hold these bushings in place otherwise they will fall out. Install all the bushings you get in their sets.

Noise, harshness, and vibrations are for wimps. If you modify a car you need to live with an uncomfortable ride. If your tired get a oldsmobile for a daily driver.

Joe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carchitect &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Noise, harshness, and vibrations are for wimps. If you modify a car you need to live with an uncomfortable ride. If your tired get a oldsmobile for a daily driver.

Joe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what Ive been sayin

 

no doubt that is 100% true.

 

that is one dried up, moldy thread you got there!!
stan

 

This thread and the other has got me thinking... gotta tell a little story here, maybe it'll shed some light on the trailing arm bushings theory..

I have an '88 CRX Si with almost 300k km's on it. I was noticing a ton of squeaking whenever I went over bumps and I eventually traced it to the large rear bushing on the trailing arms - it was very torn and very nasty, and each time I wiggled the tire up and down (even by hand) it would squeal the torn pieces of rubber together. Being the ghetto low-budget guy I am, I took a tube of that polyurethane window goo and filled the bushings. After drying, voila! No more squeaking, ride feels very solid and planted in a straight line. All was well.

However I started noticing the car becoming extremely unsettled over bumps. We're talking scary unsettled. I'd hit a bump with the rear and the tail would scoot sideways. I attributed it to my blown rear shocks (hey, I'm cheap and ghetto) and ignored it... but now I'm attributing it to the filled rear bushings not having enough lateral play for the motion of the trailing arm, causing binding.

Lately at autocross I've also been having a lot of problems. The car is tailhappy as usual but it's extremely tailhappy in transitions, like in a slalom. It also tends to snap oversteer on any sort of brake or throttle transition in anything other than a straight line.

So to sum up - don't ignore what the thread says about the trailing arm bushings... from my experience, it seems to be true! I'm going to take a drill bit and 'ventilate' my bushings in the next few days, I'll keep you guys posted as to the results

 

im a bit concerned about the trailing arms as well. from what ive read here, Superpro (http://www.superpro.com.au) makes bushings that are slightly softer than ES and prothane's and cheaper prices. The other two superpro threads here on H-T are quite convincing so i may consider going there for my replacement bushings. I wrote to their company today for information and pricing so we'll see how their customer service sizes up.

Let us know how your ventilation project works out.

 

Why bother...

Mugen makes them at stock specs out of harder rubber... improved performance and OEM quality...

IMO it's worth it... they're not even much more if at all more than the prothanes.

I got mine... just waiting to install them. I went ES for EVERY other bushing.. but those are one I think you should spend the extra bucks...

Oh and to all the dudes saying that you should put up with vibrations with ES bushings... my car ONLY vibrates when it's running rough... if it's running smoothly then there is NO and I mean ZERO vibration in the car EVER... it's only on poorly executed clutching that it vibrates or bucks... and when it's running abnormally rough...

If your car is in tune and running smoothly there should be hardly any if any vibration with the inserts... if there is there's another problem.. whether it's a torn stock mount under the insert or just some tune up issues.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why bother...

Mugen makes them at stock specs out of harder rubber... improved performance and OEM quality...

IMO it's worth it... they're not even much more if at all more than the prothanes.

I got mine... just waiting to install them. I went ES for EVERY other bushing.. but those are one I think you should spend the extra bucks...

Oh and to all the dudes saying that you should put up with vibrations with ES bushings... my car ONLY vibrates when it's running rough... if it's running smoothly then there is NO and I mean ZERO vibration in the car EVER... it's only on poorly executed clutching that it vibrates or bucks... and when it's running abnormally rough...

If your car is in tune and running smoothly there should be hardly any if any vibration with the inserts... if there is there's another problem.. whether it's a torn stock mount under the insert or just some tune up issues.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where did you get the mugen rear control arm bushings from and how much were they shipped to you?

Vince

 

Sorry man, you were right the first time. It's your blown struts. Frankly I'm shocked that you autoX a car with blown struts, being that struts are the most important component for handling.

The Prothane rear trailing arm bushings are "floating", so I don't know what all you people are talking about. I put them on my EG when I did the brake disc swap. No increased NHV. No problems at the cornering limit.

Urethane will outlive rubber by quite a bit. I think the person that mentioned wear was a very serious track person who not only put a great deal of stress on the bushings, but cared about even the slightest deformation to the bushings. Most brands use a 65 or 70 shore A, which is relatively soft allowing for longer life, increased comfort and doesn't put excessive stress on your chassis compared to harder plastics or solid bushings.

Speaking of NHV, yes a full kit of urethane on your suspension is going to increase harshness quite a bit, and IMO I don't think that's necessary for a street car or worth the minimal performance gain you'll see on the street. More discomfort than stiff springs. Don't take advice from an NSX owner, ask the girl that rides in your passenger seat. To get the best performance increase with the least comfort sacrifice, bang for buck, as someone suggested early on, just replace the ones that need it. My original parts were from a 93, now they're from a 2000 Integra. None of the control arm bushings were cracked or deformed on either, except the rear trailing arm bushings, the ball joints, and the tie rods.

My suspension is fully built, very neutral, with comfort levels comparable to stock. Comfort is not a necessary sacrifice if you know how to balance the front and rear traction. It isn't necessary to ELIMINATE body roll, and I wouldn't recommend that an amateur attempt to do so anyway because it will prevent them from learning and experiencing weight shift. The bushings are going to have little to no effect on body roll. For a street car, the most effective way to decrease body roll is with upgraded swaybars.

I highly recommend upgrading the swaybar chassis mount bushings and end links in addition to the rear trailing arm bushings with the Prothane kit. The upper/lower ball joints and tie rod ends need to be replaced with urethane or rubber.

 

im bringing this thread back to life...
i just ordered the ES master kit for my 95 gsr that has about 100k on it. What else should i get besides the kit? From what i've read is don't get the trailing arm and the boots that comes with the master kit is garbage? What other bushing should i replace that ES or prothane sells?

 

I think the Prothane bushings are of a higher quality than the ES--not to mention higher durometer (harder). I run the Prothane TA bushings and Prothane everywhere else in the car. I would probably recommend getting the stock honda oem ta bushings (you can get them without buying the whole trailing arm--the part #s are: small ta bushing--52385-sr3-000, large ta bushing--52385-sk7-n02) I have also heard that the Mugen TA bushings are no harder than the factory honda ones, just twice the price. I will probably be switching to the oem honda ta bushings in the near future.

 

I have personal experience with the rear trailing arm bushings.

All that stuff about suspension bind is b.s., the rear trailing arm bushings are full floating and will not bind, people claim that they bind because they jack the rear suspension up and they claim it doesn't articulate and so on, but there is no load, when your driving that car on the road and your putting the speed plus the weight of the vehicle against the bushigns, trust me it will articulate.

As for which rear trailing arm bushings, obviously oem works for sure, and I can't say from experience because I've never tried the prothane but by comparing them to the es bushings they are by far much better.

I have es rear trailing arm bushings, in black and they do squeek, black is supposed to help with squeeks by I have not noticed it. Also they worked fine for a while with no drivability proplems but then it all went sour.

es make you reuse the original pins and that is such a bad idea because by the time you are finished cleaning them off, you now have exposed bare metal and when I pulled them out to double check and lube them up cause of the squeeks I found they were rusted in the bushing. Such a peice of ****.

prothane on the other hand gives you an anodized pin which will not rust therefore you will not have this problem.

I've personally emailed the company to complain and what they said to me was how could a little rust do anything anyways it's no big deal?

Proof of a bad product. There is nothing wrong with urethane trailing arm bushings, just don't buy the es.

 

My bushings on my hatch were pretty worn so i replaced them all the urathane bushings and I'm happy. I even did the trailing arm bushing which a lot of people says causes binding but my car handles great now. My front end feel much more stable but then again my bushing were starting to crack. I think its a good upgrade if your bushings are shot. If your car has low miles or is almost new i wouldn't waiste the money.

 

I just bought a rear disc swap, and have been advised to get Mugen bushings for the trailing arms.

is Kind motorsports the only place that sells them?

 

I did my shifter bushings with the Energy Suspension ones and they DO NOTHING. All they do is replace TWO bushings on the shift linkage that dont even move. Unless yours are cracked or torn, dont waste your money on them like I did.
My dumbass couldve bought the sway bar bushings for cheaper and actually noticed something.

I did my passenger side mount and it was pretty easy. All the tools need are 14mm, and 17mm. It was pretty easy to install and they look pretty sweet. I havent gotten a chance to test drive them yet.

I cant find where the rear ones go though. WTF?