obd2 rom burning program?
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From: Houston
obd2 rom burning program?
i was wondering if anyone was working on or is using software similar to uberdata or turboedit to tune thier obd2 cars. i'm working on boosting my d16y7 and do NOT want to convert to obd1. i only need to change the ignition timing maps because i'm controlling fuel with the dreaded atc hack. however, if there is such software the allows full controll of the ecu, i would much rather do that than the hack.
tia
tia
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From: San Jose, CA, USA
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (khoalie)
EDIT: stupid false comments removed. This post has been re-written to make sense.
You can, but it is a lot less straightforward and more costly than chipping OBD1. OBD2A ECUs are the problem, as OBD2B is actually flashable (different technology). I am assuming that since you have a d-series motor, we are talking about OBD2A.
OBD2A can be chipped, but most chips I have seen are burn-once affairs. This isn't really practical if your goal is to have your car tuned on the street or dyno by a qualified tuner (or even yourself). Most racing-branded chips aren't worth the money at all (Spoon, Mugen, JET, etc.).
Modified by Silverpike at 1:00 PM 5/10/2004
You can, but it is a lot less straightforward and more costly than chipping OBD1. OBD2A ECUs are the problem, as OBD2B is actually flashable (different technology). I am assuming that since you have a d-series motor, we are talking about OBD2A.
OBD2A can be chipped, but most chips I have seen are burn-once affairs. This isn't really practical if your goal is to have your car tuned on the street or dyno by a qualified tuner (or even yourself). Most racing-branded chips aren't worth the money at all (Spoon, Mugen, JET, etc.).
Modified by Silverpike at 1:00 PM 5/10/2004
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From: lewiston, maine, usa
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (Silverpike)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silverpike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, there is none.They aren't even chippable. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Interesting.....
I have a chipped y7 ecu that removes the secondary o2 sensor, removes the rev limit, and removes the speed governor.
Maybe this should be stated differently
OBD2 chips can be burnt, however it is expensive to do, and the chips are very hard to find.
Interesting.....
I have a chipped y7 ecu that removes the secondary o2 sensor, removes the rev limit, and removes the speed governor.
Maybe this should be stated differently
OBD2 chips can be burnt, however it is expensive to do, and the chips are very hard to find.
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From: Houston
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (civic-4-ges)
can you tell me where you got the ecu or who chipped it, maybe i can find someone that can burn me something
and if i were to convert to obd1 which ecu would i use? p06?
and if i were to convert to obd1 which ecu would i use? p06?
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Re: obd2 rom burning program? (khoalie)
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MiG-21 superfan
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (civic-4-ges)
ok, here is the deal---
Only one source, that I know of at this point in time can "chip" OBDII honda ecu's...Ericks Racing.
Supposedly, the OKI chips that are required are nearly impossible to find.
A little history: In the late 90's, before Hondata came about, Doug Hondata and a guy named Robert had company called G-Force. They had a rather complete honda ecu tuning program, however, available thru select channels, such as the old UPRD in CA, G-Force did OBDII tuning as well, contracted through a company which is still around, but does not do Hondas, only Nis/Toy, etc... Technosquare, Inc. They are heavy into Techtom tuning.
Only one source, that I know of at this point in time can "chip" OBDII honda ecu's...Ericks Racing.
Supposedly, the OKI chips that are required are nearly impossible to find.
A little history: In the late 90's, before Hondata came about, Doug Hondata and a guy named Robert had company called G-Force. They had a rather complete honda ecu tuning program, however, available thru select channels, such as the old UPRD in CA, G-Force did OBDII tuning as well, contracted through a company which is still around, but does not do Hondas, only Nis/Toy, etc... Technosquare, Inc. They are heavy into Techtom tuning.
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From: orlando, fl, 32826
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (builthatch)
It depends on the ECU - The new ECU's from the 01+ civic and +02 RSX's are programmable via the OBDII port. The Helm manual even gives the procedure for updating the ECU program. However, this is Honda's program - no one on PGM-FI has figured it out yet. I made a suggestion to buy the honda programmer (for $900) and program, and see how to hack it. I bet this is how Hondata did it for the Kpro, since no one else has be able to figure it out....
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Re: obd2 rom burning program? (JDMwannaB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMwannaB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://pgmfi.org/resources/FAQ/obd2.html
http://www.autoserve.8m.com/St....html
http://www.autoserve.8m.com/ChipTable_25A.html#ob2
http://www.autoserve.8m.com/OBD2Emu2.html</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have seen these links already, but you are not telling the whole story here. You are technically correct, but here are the problems:
* Not all OBD2 ECUs are supported. In fact, the only OBD2 ECUs I have seen chipped successfully are the P73s (JDM ITR). I see P75s on that table, but I have never heard of a success story for those.
* I have heard of the T-rex. However, you have to buy it through Autoserve. They want $350 for just the T-rex, not counting the P73 ECU you are probably going to have to get.
* Any drop-in chip for OBD2A uses the 66P507, which are only 1-time programmable. For every tuning iteration you do, you have to throw away the current one and use a brand new chip.
* Last time I looked, I could not find 66P507s at all. I have heard of some people who managed to buy them in bulk. The last reference I saw on PGM-FI claimed that someone can get them for around $30 apiece, but that was unconfirmed. $30 per tuning iteration is a little on the expensive side.
When you add up all the rediculous prices here, it makes a lot more sense just to switch to OBD1 ECUs, since they are cheap and readily available. If all you want is just to run some Spoon or Mugen program, it might make sense just to order a chip pre-programmed from Autoserve (or someone else). If you are worried about passing smog, just keep your stock ECU and swap it out when the time comes to get inspected.
http://www.autoserve.8m.com/St....html
http://www.autoserve.8m.com/ChipTable_25A.html#ob2
http://www.autoserve.8m.com/OBD2Emu2.html</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have seen these links already, but you are not telling the whole story here. You are technically correct, but here are the problems:
* Not all OBD2 ECUs are supported. In fact, the only OBD2 ECUs I have seen chipped successfully are the P73s (JDM ITR). I see P75s on that table, but I have never heard of a success story for those.
* I have heard of the T-rex. However, you have to buy it through Autoserve. They want $350 for just the T-rex, not counting the P73 ECU you are probably going to have to get.
* Any drop-in chip for OBD2A uses the 66P507, which are only 1-time programmable. For every tuning iteration you do, you have to throw away the current one and use a brand new chip.
* Last time I looked, I could not find 66P507s at all. I have heard of some people who managed to buy them in bulk. The last reference I saw on PGM-FI claimed that someone can get them for around $30 apiece, but that was unconfirmed. $30 per tuning iteration is a little on the expensive side.
When you add up all the rediculous prices here, it makes a lot more sense just to switch to OBD1 ECUs, since they are cheap and readily available. If all you want is just to run some Spoon or Mugen program, it might make sense just to order a chip pre-programmed from Autoserve (or someone else). If you are worried about passing smog, just keep your stock ECU and swap it out when the time comes to get inspected.
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From: orlando, fl, 32826
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (Silverpike)
It may be easier to convert to OBDII for pre 01 honda's - but they have been changing the way they do things lately. The newer cars (01 civics for example) utilize a "multiplex bus" system to communicate with various sensors and gauges of the car. For example, the gauge cluster is on this multiplex bus - so if you convert the ECU, bam, your gauge cluster doesn't work properly any more.
Sure, it would be easier to just convert over, but there is going to soon be a need to start getting caught up with current technology....
Sure, it would be easier to just convert over, but there is going to soon be a need to start getting caught up with current technology....
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (Silverpike)
Silverpike, no offense, but your first post is inaccurate...
EDIT: (the following quote is by silverpike for those of us who can't read a complete thread, post without blurting something ridiculous out, or are easily confused)
silverpike said- "No, there is none.
All of the Honda ECUs that are OBD2 are non-programmable. They aren't even chippable."
Please, i encourage you to talk to Ericks Racing about chipping OBD2..and read my first post in this thread.
I do agree, however, that it is more cost-effective to switch to OBD1, but, in some situations, legally, it is too hard to get around in some parts or the country...one of the reasons i chipped my OBD2 P2E ecu back in 98 was for this reason.
Modified by builthatch at 4:21 PM 5/8/2004
EDIT: (the following quote is by silverpike for those of us who can't read a complete thread, post without blurting something ridiculous out, or are easily confused)
silverpike said- "No, there is none.
All of the Honda ECUs that are OBD2 are non-programmable. They aren't even chippable."
Please, i encourage you to talk to Ericks Racing about chipping OBD2..and read my first post in this thread.
I do agree, however, that it is more cost-effective to switch to OBD1, but, in some situations, legally, it is too hard to get around in some parts or the country...one of the reasons i chipped my OBD2 P2E ecu back in 98 was for this reason.
Modified by builthatch at 4:21 PM 5/8/2004
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From: orlando, fl, 32826
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (builthatch)
Builthatch - it is YOU who are incorrect. The RSX (ala 2001+) ECU is upgradable. READ MY POST BEFORE. All of the 2001+ ECU's are upgradable. How do you think Hondata does the upgrade for the k20?? Its via the OBDII port.....
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (opto_isolator)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opto_isolator »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Builthatch - it is YOU who are incorrect. The RSX (ala 2001+) ECU is upgradable. READ MY POST BEFORE. All of the 2001+ ECU's are upgradable. How do you think Hondata does the upgrade for the k20?? Its via the OBDII port.....</TD></TR></TABLE>
What are you talking about that i'm incorrect? I quoted silverpike in my post - he is the one that said **** is not programmable and/or chippable.
i never said anthing to the contrary about 2001+, in fact, i did not say one thing about 2001+ at all, please rereaad, then promptly edit your post and take your label off me.
I'll tell you why i have not spoken about 2001+. The bottom line is, this post is about a user with a d16y7, and his/her options for their OBD2 ****...i did not talk once about anything k20 related...
Modified by builthatch at 8:37 PM 5/9/2004
What are you talking about that i'm incorrect? I quoted silverpike in my post - he is the one that said **** is not programmable and/or chippable.
i never said anthing to the contrary about 2001+, in fact, i did not say one thing about 2001+ at all, please rereaad, then promptly edit your post and take your label off me.
I'll tell you why i have not spoken about 2001+. The bottom line is, this post is about a user with a d16y7, and his/her options for their OBD2 ****...i did not talk once about anything k20 related...
Modified by builthatch at 8:37 PM 5/9/2004
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From: orlando, fl, 32826
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (builthatch)
Sorry - wrong person! 
As far as wasting time, I still think its a valid concern for future build ups - no one wants to think about keeping OBDII, which sucks because all cars are moving to new standards (GM and the CAN system for example)......
As far as wasting time, I still think its a valid concern for future build ups - no one wants to think about keeping OBDII, which sucks because all cars are moving to new standards (GM and the CAN system for example)......
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (opto_isolator)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opto_isolator »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry - wrong person! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yo phiz... WHAT UP!
</TD></TR></TABLE> Yo phiz... WHAT UP!
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Re: obd2 rom burning program? (PHiZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a JET chipped P2P sitting right here.
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe you, I said at the top that I have heard of Japanese tuners chipping ECUs. Never seen one though. Can you post pics? I am curious to see it.
I realize I fucked up in my topmost post. I will go and edit it now. My brain was thinking chippable as in "without custom piggyback designs". The OBD1 ECUs are chippable because the PCB has component places already made for using external ROMs (the OBD2A ones don't). So yes, pretty much what I said up there isn't true (sorry for the brain fart). OBD2A ECUs are only chippable because someone either: (a) Used a 66P507 (which does meet the minimum definition for the "chippable" capability, but is highly impractical) or (b) used a custom-designed piggyback board with more than just an external ROM to make it work. I have not yet seen an option (b) that was resonably priced or full-featured.
builthatch, Erick's Racing may be capable of chipping OBD2A, I have never heard their name mentioned before in any discussion. However, there are some other companies overseas that can do it too (apparently some JDM tuners as well). Based on all that I have seen, none are financially viable though.
opto_isolator, if you read my first post again, I do say that OBD2B ECUs are "chippable". I never claimed they weren't. The operative word there isn't really "chippable", it's more like "flashable", since it uses a different technology. Same result though.
Just FYI, a lot of people seem to think Hondata uses the OBD port as a means to flash the OBD2B (K-series) ECUs. This is not true. I saw some pictures of a Hondata-flahed ECU, and they do it by adding a small DIP header on the PCB itself (inside the ECU). I am guessing that these are the pins on the processor that allow external writes of the Flash memory, and they just plug in a serial programmer to that header. While I believe that it is definitely possible to flash an OBD2B ECU via the OBD port, which Honda basically says in the service manual, I have yet to see any person or company reverse engineer the protocol. It will be a great day when that comes.
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe you, I said at the top that I have heard of Japanese tuners chipping ECUs. Never seen one though. Can you post pics? I am curious to see it.
I realize I fucked up in my topmost post. I will go and edit it now. My brain was thinking chippable as in "without custom piggyback designs". The OBD1 ECUs are chippable because the PCB has component places already made for using external ROMs (the OBD2A ones don't). So yes, pretty much what I said up there isn't true (sorry for the brain fart). OBD2A ECUs are only chippable because someone either: (a) Used a 66P507 (which does meet the minimum definition for the "chippable" capability, but is highly impractical) or (b) used a custom-designed piggyback board with more than just an external ROM to make it work. I have not yet seen an option (b) that was resonably priced or full-featured.
builthatch, Erick's Racing may be capable of chipping OBD2A, I have never heard their name mentioned before in any discussion. However, there are some other companies overseas that can do it too (apparently some JDM tuners as well). Based on all that I have seen, none are financially viable though.
opto_isolator, if you read my first post again, I do say that OBD2B ECUs are "chippable". I never claimed they weren't. The operative word there isn't really "chippable", it's more like "flashable", since it uses a different technology. Same result though.
Just FYI, a lot of people seem to think Hondata uses the OBD port as a means to flash the OBD2B (K-series) ECUs. This is not true. I saw some pictures of a Hondata-flahed ECU, and they do it by adding a small DIP header on the PCB itself (inside the ECU). I am guessing that these are the pins on the processor that allow external writes of the Flash memory, and they just plug in a serial programmer to that header. While I believe that it is definitely possible to flash an OBD2B ECU via the OBD port, which Honda basically says in the service manual, I have yet to see any person or company reverse engineer the protocol. It will be a great day when that comes.
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From: NL, CT, cuba
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (Silverpike)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Silverpike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe you, I said at the top that I have heard of Japanese tuners chipping ECUs. Never seen one though. Can you post pics? I am curious to see it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It has warranty void seals, so I cannot crack it open, as much as that pains me. Bon.C might have purchased a chipped OBD2 P72 off of someoen at one point.
And as far as only the P73 being chippable, I think that rumor is partly because of it being somewhat OBD1'ish, and it being the preferred development platform (type-r), so it probably has the most commercial/JDM roms available...
-PHiZ
also, I believe TechTom is the company that sells the commercial equipment to do the development on these ECUs.
I believe you, I said at the top that I have heard of Japanese tuners chipping ECUs. Never seen one though. Can you post pics? I am curious to see it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It has warranty void seals, so I cannot crack it open, as much as that pains me. Bon.C might have purchased a chipped OBD2 P72 off of someoen at one point.
And as far as only the P73 being chippable, I think that rumor is partly because of it being somewhat OBD1'ish, and it being the preferred development platform (type-r), so it probably has the most commercial/JDM roms available...
-PHiZ
also, I believe TechTom is the company that sells the commercial equipment to do the development on these ECUs.
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From: near the ocean, Moderator City, NJ
Re: obd2 rom burning program? (PHiZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by builthatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Technosquare, Inc. They are heavy into Techtom tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, I believe TechTom is the company that sells the commercial equipment to do the development on these ECUs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, I believe TechTom is the company that sells the commercial equipment to do the development on these ECUs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
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