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Not Another AWD Civic Project!!!

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Old 02-16-2016, 04:32 PM   #26
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Hope everyone had a good V and P Day! I'll have some comparison picks of the CR-V open diff and the MFactory H22 LSD up soon.
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:31 PM   #27
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Nice setup.. No more 60mph roll racing. Keep up the hard work.
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:18 AM   #28
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Nice setup.. No more 60mph roll racing. Keep up the hard work.
That is for sure. I was braking traction at 60mph rolls, I was even braking traction at 90mph. Sure it didn't help that my tires were at the end of their days, but come on. 90mph!! Thanks for the support!
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:31 AM   #29
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Alright, as I said there is an H-T member that is helping me out big time in fitting a functional LSD into the SBXM transmission. I will only need to send the bottom section of the LSD out to be worked on. This means I get to take the LSD apart I'm still a kid at heart and I love taking things apart to see how they work. This thing looks pretty gnarly on the inside with the beefy helical gears. MFactory only rates this LSD to 500hp, but I'm thinking (more like hoping) that it can handle much more.





Top half of LSD with helical gears





Helical gear set and springs





Bottom half with dowel pin





All of the work needed to be done to get this LSD to fit and function in the SBXM trans will only have to be performed on the bottom half of it. The outer bolt holes for the ring gear on the LSD are threaded. With FWD diffs, the ring gear is bolted directly to the diff. In the case with the SBXM, the diff not only drives the final drive ring gear, but also drives the ring gear for the transfer case. The way Honda designed this they have the bolts go through the diff, through the final drive ring gear, and thread into the ring gear for the transfer case. So the threaded bolt holes in the LSD have to be machined out to allow new bolts to go through it and into the gears. That being said, the bolts for the ring gears presented a whole other problem...





So close, yet so far





Difference in height on top, and on the bottom.






Bottom half

You can clearly see some differences here between the two. It's really only where the ring gear bolts onto the diff, and you can see where a little machining will be needed. Everything else is basically the same, so there will be no need to reinvent the wheel here. So back to the bolts... Because a spacer ring will be built and used to make up to the height difference to position the ring gears in the correct spot, longer aftermarket bolts will be needed. OK... Well, now that we have to put the bolts through the diff on the opposite side (remember, the bolts go through the diff with AWD instead of bolting into the diff with FWD) we have to worry about clearance issues of the bolt heads. Cap screws will help with this clearance issue with 5th gear, but not enough and you really don't want to grind down the caps. Solution for this, machine and take down the underside of the diff. Problem solved.

If you're like, "WTF is this dude talking about?" I apologize. It will all make more sense when I show you pictures of the work when completed.

So, just get some bolts and throw them in, right? This project wouldn't be any fun if there wasn't any road blocks to punch you in the face. The H-T member helping me out also went as far as to provide me with the part number and even the place to get these specific bolts. What a guy! Only problem he said is the stopped making or stalking them and he has been looking for them for quite some time without any luck. What is so special about these bolts you ask...




That's right (or not right), they are left-hand threaded bolts. For some reason these bolts in this grade and length are no longer available in a left-hand thread as they used to be. So what now? Keep looking, and looking, and looking? Contact a manufacturer about possibly making custom bolts? Drill and tap the transfer ring gear for right-hand threads? IDK.... How about just take the damn diff apart and think about it later.

So I do. And with an impact gun, I can't get these God for saken bolts out of this diff. Could it be? Am I wrong? Looking at my hands, "Lefty loosy..." Why not? I'll just try to loosen them the OH MY GOD!!! Now remember I said that this trans is a JDM spec SBXM. Turns out that everything is opposite in Japan and these bolts are right-hand threads! I quickly contacted the man helping me out to inform him of this discovery. To my surprise, he had heard that the JDM diffs were indeed right-hand threaded. He actually has a JDM trans in his possession, but has not gotten around to tearing it down. Needless to say he was pretty excited about the news as well. What a relief as I really didn't like the other options I was looking at. So everything is a go again and I am sending out the bottom half of the LSD for machining. Once back I will provide pics to better explain what was needed to be done.

In the mean time, I'll be rebuilding the trans and trying to make it more aesthetically pleasing. I am a terrible welder, so I have been talking to a friend who will be helping me make the rear trailing arms. All in due time. Thanks for checking in!
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Old 02-18-2016, 01:31 PM   #30
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So the right diff is the one your using correct?
And youre machining the bottom round area of the diff.?
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Old 02-18-2016, 02:46 PM   #31
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So the right diff is the one your using correct?
And youre machining the bottom round area of the diff.?
That is correct. The one on the right is the MFactory H22A LSD and the one on the left is the CR-V B20B open diff.

Correct again! The bottom round edge where the bolts go through will be machined down to provide clearance for the bolt heads to the 5th gear.
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Old 02-21-2016, 10:17 AM   #32
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Had a chance to get over to my buddy's place and use his press to pull apart the main and counter shaft to replace the bearings and synchros. Again, I was quite surprised as to the great condition this transmission is in. The needle bearings looked awesome and everything else was in order. I was actually able to take both shafts apart and put them back together in the same day. I have replaced the synchros in my B16 trans some time back and the first thing I noticed with the SBXM was the difference in the synchro design. The B16 trans uses a one piece syncro which is pretty simple. The SBXM uses a three piece design or what Honda calls a "double cone synchro." I would imagine this is for strength as the SBXM is an AWD setup, but I'm sure the H22A trans uses the same design. Maybe someone here who knows better can chime in on this.












B16 single synchro design.






SBXM synchro set.






Like I've mentioned before, I take pride in keeping a clean/pretty engine bay. I sometimes geek out in the https://honda-tech.com/honda-acura-2...ssion-1693934/ here on H-T envious most of the things I see. Some of those people are nuts BTW, but most of them might say the same about me with this project. Anyways, I powder coated my B16 trans to give is a clean look that would be easy to clean when dirty. A buddy of mine introduced me to some wheel spray paint that he swears by and actually gave me a couple of cans of it. I have my doubts especially on wheels, but I figured what the hell, I'll try it out on the trans casing. I really liked the bronze color, I figured if was for wheels then it should hold up well in the engine bay, and hey IT WAS FREE. So, I got to masking and I got to painting and I really think it is turning out nice so far.






















Started making a plan to come up with a jig for the trailing arms. That part will be easy. It's the whole cutting and pasting that will be interesting. I also sourced out a CR-V shifter assem in Europe. Someone is over there is parting out their AWD and I was able to snag that from him. Another reason it would be so nice to find a donor locally. I'm sure once I finish this damn project I will run into one. Never fails. That's all for now, stay tuned...
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Old 02-21-2016, 11:07 AM   #33
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That is correct. The one on the right is the MFactory H22A LSD and the one on the left is the CR-V B20B open diff.

Correct again! The bottom round edge where the bolts go through will be machined down to provide clearance for the bolt heads to the 5th gear.
I need to see pictures of this when its done!
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:01 AM   #34
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Finally figured out what the hell to do with that hideous starter that is in front of the transmission eye fing everyone as soon as you open the hood. I going to give it the car wrap treatment and see how that holds up with the hot conditions. I know it's kind of ghetto, but honestly it is a lot better than what it was. I went with the carbon fiber look just because it goes with a couple of other things in the engine bay and on the car. It is also subtle and doesn't scream "LOOK AT ME!!" Also picked up some shiny stuff from those crazy guys at Downstar...














Like I said, we will see how well that paint holds up. Definitely an improvement over what I started with (pun intended). Also by giving this thing a makeover, I was able to take apart this 16 year old piece and clean out the innards. Dirty brushes will give you a headache and become a diagnosis nightmare when you are changing so many things at once. Sometimes bad starters just need a little love to keep them going.




Shifter assembly came it! Boy this thing is hideous too, but we won't be seeing much of it. Now one thing I already hate is how friggen long the shift stick/lever is. It definitely wasn't meant to be in a Civic, especially with Recaro seats and low profile seat rails. Maybe I can just throw a skull shift **** or brass knuckles on it and call it a day. I know I can just cut and paste here to make it shorter, but I am looking into using a shift stick from something else along with a short shifter kit. I do not want to go back to those long *** shifts that Honda shift assems usually always have.





Cable shifting!








Holly hell this thing is long!








That's not going in my engine bay looking like that!








Let's get rid of those...

So I got some research and playing around to do with my new stick. LSD has been sent out and has made it to the machine shop to get chopped up. Most all of the bearings and seals have been installed in the trans and all of the synchros are in place and shifting flawlessly thus far. Might have some time to get to the rear trailing arms this weekend. Stay tuned...
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:42 PM   #35
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Dug into the CR-V shift assem in order to take a look see and start trying to compare it to other shifter assems Honda puts in some of their other models. Luckily for us there are tons of websites out there that provide Honda parts and actual pictures. The bad news is there are no specs on the parts so you really have no idea how long, big, heavy things are until you actually see them in person. Honda offers so many different variations of shifter assemblies and cables there is no way to tell which ones will work in place in others. I certainly do not have the funds to purchase parts just to see if they will work. So I do research through the Google machine and do my best. So this is what I have come up with... If I use a different shifter assem, the CR-V cables will not attach properly to that shifter assem. If I use the a different shifter assem and the cables that go with it, those cables may not be the correct length and/or may not connect properly to the trans. Sooooooo, what about just swapping out the shift stick/lever?? What's nice about the shifter assems Honda makes, is that you can take them apart and reassemble them. The shift stick/lever can be completely removed and reinstalled. This means it can be swapped out! Having taken a look at the CR-V shift stick and comparing it to other shifting mechanisms, I have found that the shifting characteristics of the CR-V is very similar to that of the Fit. The movements for each shift are identical. Again, I can't tell if it will work as far as exact measurements unless I have it in my possession. I decide to roll the dice and order up a Revo Technica short shifter assem for an '07-13 Honda Fit. It's fairly inexpensive and I figure if it doesn't work out, I should be able to return it.





Pretty simple to take apart.





Removal of a couple of pins.








And the shift lever is out!





Crazy most of this is plastic. Hopefully it stays together with hard shifting.


Cut some holes through the mount for the SRS control unit and will run the cables through it. The cables will run through the firewall where the engine wire harness goes. This is going to be tight as I am already running my engine wire harness along with my fuse box wire harness through this spot. This is my poor man's wire tuck as I have relocated my fuse box in my glovebox. Thought I would try to get an idea of where the shift assem is going to end up inside the Civic. It's hard to say though without the trans installed. This is the first time I have had any experience with cable shifting, so I am really unsure of where things are supposed to be.





Ugly holes. This wasn't easy with a little Dremel Tool.





About here??





Something like that...

This stick is huge!!! I knew if I was going to get this thing to sit any lower and flat, I was going to have to cut out the old mount for the rubber gasket the old shifter used. So I grabbed the Dremel and went to town. The plan is to use a metal plate to mount the CR-V shift assem to. That plate will bolt to the floor using the existing threaded holes that were for the old shift bushing and use a smaller plate under the car to "sandwich" the floor in the front. That should be enough support for hard shifts.





Mount for rubber boot off of old shifter.





That's gotta go...





Underside





Gone! and dropped my flashlight. Existing threaded bolt holes at the top.





I'll bang it down to get it a little flatter.








Mounting plate.





A little thin, but it should do.





Holes drilled for shift assem.





Bolted to the floor.

I'll wait for the Revo Fit shift assem before I break out the welder. Still going strong! For now...
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:41 AM   #36
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Got the Revo Fit short shift assem in and to no surprise, it will not work with the CR-V cables. I was pretty much counting on that, but what does work, and what I was hoping would work, is the shift lever from it. I was quite happy to see that the lower half of the Fit lever is pretty much identical to the CR-V lever. This is great news as the Fit lever is way shorter and will go right into the CR-V shift assem with no fabricating. Even the bushings for the shift lever are the same size as CR-V and fit directly into the shift mechanism. The Revo shift assem came apart too just like the CR-V. Almost too good to be true. Because the bottom half of the Fit shift lever measures out exactly the same as the CR-V, there will be no difference in the shifting distance. That's ok as I have picked up a little trick from some of the CR-V boys and will be installing a Skunk2 Honda Fit short shift kit.





Revo Honda Fit short shift assem.





Unclips and pulls apart...





Pretty much the same distance from the bottom of the ball to the end of the bushing.





Side by side and a bit shorter





CR-V bushing in the shift mechanism





Fit shift lever and bushing





Fit lever bushing in CR-V shift mechanism





Fit lever installed in CR-V shift assem.





Bushing sticks out just a little, but does not hinder any movement.





Me rippin through gears and making VTEC sounds...





Can really see the difference here. Yes, that's a Starbucks coffee in the background. Don't judge me bro...





Fit bushing fitting right into the CR-V cable. Maybe that's why Honda called it the Fit...

Shifting feels flawless with the Fit lever installed in the CR-V shift assem. I really won't know how flawless until it is installed in the Civic and I am able to go through real gears. I'm not even going to see how it feels without a short shift kit. If it is way too short, which I doubt, I will take the kit out. Till next time, same Bat-time, same Bat-channel...
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Old 03-02-2016, 03:11 AM   #37
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haven't started mine yet but this is good info so....SUBCRIBED!
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Old 03-03-2016, 10:20 PM   #38
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credit to you for all the hands on work man, good stuff
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:05 AM   #39
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haven't started mine yet but this is good info so....SUBCRIBED!
Lots more to come that should help you out with your build. I have found a lot of great info on H-T as well, so it is time to give back. Good luck with yours.

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credit to you for all the hands on work man, good stuff
Thank you. It is tedious work, but hopefully well worth it in the end. All here for your viewing pleasure.
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Old 03-05-2016, 01:37 PM   #40
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OK, this may have been counterproductive, but this is what I am going with. I installed a Skunk2 Honda Fit short shift kit onto the CR-V shift assem. In order to achieve a shorter throw when shifting, the shift lever is extended in length. This leads the bottom of the shift lever hitting the floor and this is no good. So Skunk2 provides spacers to prevent this from happening. The spacers are 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch and raise the entire shift assem. The top of the shift lever still isn't as tall as the stock CR-V would be, but it would be nice to have it lower. A small price to pay for shorter shifting I guess.








Bottom of shift lever without shift kit





Lever extended








Shift kit installed. Lever is longer than shift assem

I thought that I would add a little humor to this thread and show you some of my welding. I probably only have about 3 hours logged at this point, so please don't judge me bro. I wanted to weld some nuts to the bottom of the mounting plate for the mounting screws. I also welded on the spacers just so they weren't moving all around while tried to assemble it. I think it will also keep the whole assembly feel a little more solid. The rear of the plate will bolt to the floor where there are existing threaded holes, and the front will use a plate to sandwich the floor.





Welding some nuts to the bottom for the shift assem bolts.








Plating for the front of mount that will sandwich the floor.








Decided to weld the spacers to the mount just to make it easier to assemble.





HEHEHE


The mounting holes in the shift assem are not straight up and down unfortunately, so I had to figure out where I was going to angle it. I figured cutting the stock rubber bushings would be the easiest way. I also wanted to use the stock mounting bushings, but if I find that the shifter feels too loose later I will get rid of them to make it more solid.





Mounting holes are not straight up and down.





Bushings sitting in mounting holes.





My attempt at changing the angles...





Rubber mounts after cutting.





Bushings in the mounting holes after cutting


Now because I raised the entire shift assem, it changes the angle the that the shift cables attach to the shift lever. In fact, the one for the bottom of the lever will not attach at all with the assem now in the way. So I cut a section out of the bottom of the shift assem.





Section cut out for shift cable.


The final assembly seemed to work out pretty well. Shifting seems smooth or at lease the movement of the shift lever. I won't know for sure until the trans is in the car. But for now I am happy.





Mounting plate mounted to the floor.











All bolted down ready to bang through some gears!





Shifter assem mounted





Even fits under the cup holder!





All covered up and looking fresh.





Cables running through the SRS control unit mount.


I used some windshield glue to seal up the bottom from the mount to the floor. That stuff is pretty messy, but gets the job done. Should never have to worry about falling asleep from exhaust fumes. Sheesh, all that for just the shifter. That part is done now though, for now at least...
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Old 03-08-2016, 03:14 PM   #41
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You may be onto something! I hated losing my cup holders and trim.
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Old 03-09-2016, 10:34 AM   #42
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Really nice work! I would love to do something like this to my car, but I think it's a bit more than I could handle.
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Old 03-11-2016, 04:07 AM   #43
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Nice!!!!! I also want to have a 4wd honda.
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:54 PM   #44
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You may be onto something! I hated losing my cup holders and trim.
Yeah, I'm not trying to build a BMW. I do want my cup holders! Though I'm not sure how useful they will be with AWD launches.


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Really nice work! I would love to do something like this to my car, but I think it's a bit more than I could handle.
Thank you, and this project has been a bit more than I can handle at times. There are days when I say to myself, "What the hell was I thinking? And who does this **** to a Honda? Idiot!"


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Nice!!!!! I also want to have a 4wd honda.
WHO DOESN'T?!?

Been a bit busy this week, so not much to share. Don't worry though, plenty more shenanigans to come. Thanks for stopping in!
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:12 PM   #45
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Shift linkage looks great!
Any news on the diff?
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Old 03-12-2016, 06:40 AM   #46
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Shift linkage looks great!
Any news on the diff?
Thank you sir! I do like the way it turned out an the fact that it all fit under the stock Civic trim. AND THE DIFF IS ON IT'S WAY BACK!!!

But that's not good enough, how about a little teaser...





MmmmmmmmmmmFactory

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Old 03-15-2016, 03:08 PM   #47
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I know that I have categorized this thread as an AWD Project, but I don't have any updates and am, and will be dealing with other issues along the way. That being said, I knew the day would come and it finally has as my eBay special turbo manifold has quit on me. Really I am quite shocked at how long it has lasted. I think I got the damn thing back in 2008. Not that I have put a ton of miles on it, but is has seen 2 different engine set-ups, 2 different turbos, 2 different waste gates, 1 Jet Hot coat, and at least 4 different tunes that has gotten me to 543whp. I've cut the turbo flange off, repositioned for a larger turbo and welded it back on. I've also cut the waste gate flange section off, welded in a "tear drop", and a v-band. Needless to say, it's been through a lot and held up pretty well... until now.





This is the first one I noticed








Big *** crack





Slightly noticeable





Damn!





This one almost made it all the way around





Crack on the third runner in.





This one almost made it all the way around

Three out of the four runners had cracks in them and two of them almost made it all the way around. I had been noticing it sounding louder around the engine area lately and now I see where all the noise is coming from. You can even feel the exhaust pulsating when you put your hand down towards the middle of the manifold. TIME TO GO!

Fortunately for me,t his is something I had planned ahead for and had spent a little bit more $$ on a nicer manifold. So I went with a Blue Ridge Motorsport's turbo manifold for the quality, looks, and lifetime guarantee. Unfortunately for me they went out of business shortly after, so I am relying heavily on the quality part. I also knew that I was going to have to build a new down pipe to clear the transfer case. I would have to make a new down pipe for this new manifold anyways, so now is the time to put it on.





Really liking the color and look of it.





Hopefully it's built as well as it looks...





Quite a bit of difference between the two.





Really hoping my turbo fits




So I guess this is all part of the AWD build. New manifold or not, I was going to have to build a new down pipe. I am also planning on retuning after the build is complete. Who doesn't want to see what they are putting down to all 4 wheels??
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:58 AM   #48
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Happy St. Patty's Day everybody!!


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Old 03-19-2016, 07:45 AM   #49
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Finally it has arrived, the moment I've all been waiting for!




Ahhhh, the MFactory H22A LSD transformed into a CR-V SBXM LSD, in all of its glory. The machining on this piece looks is fantastic and it is almost as if it came straight from the factory. Another big shout out to the H-T member who went out of his way to make this happen and asked nothing in return. This LSD is beautiful, and is only one of handful in existence. Truly a custom piece that I am proud to say I own and is a major factor in this build. Thankfully, the dreaded torque steer we all hate so much will not be an issue. So... how about some pics and explanations of the work done.





Before any work was done, the factory CR-V diff compared to the MFactory H22 LSD.





Here you can see the spacer ring that was added to bring the final drive ring gear in proper alignment.





You can also see the outer tapered ridge that was taken off. I believe this was done to give the spacer more bulk an strength.





This is without the spacer on. Again, you can see where the tapered ridge was machined off.





The bolt holes and the threads where machined out to allow the new bolts to go straight threw.





It's pretty...





This is the bottom of the LSD. It had to machined down to allow clearance of the bolt heads from hitting 5th gear.





Before machining was performed.





I took some after measurements, but I forgot to take before measurements so not really sure how this helps.





Another one...





Thickness of the spacer ring.
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:59 AM   #50
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Not sure why, but H-T wouldn't allow me to post anymore photos to that last post. So here is the rest of the story...

These are the "special" bolts I had to order. Again, I lucked out by not having to find reverse threaded bolts. The belief is that JDM SBXM uses regular threaded bolts and the USDM SBXM requires reverse threaded bolts. These bolts also had to be longer due to the use of the spacer ring and the bolt heads had to be as short as possible for clearance.

OK, H-T is really being a PITA. I had to attach these 3 pics. Anyways, you can see the factory bolt vs. the new "special" bolt. You can also see the the new bolt in the LSD and it starts to make sense as to why the back side of the face has to be machined down. Normally with this LSD (H22 LSD) the bolts would thread into it and come from the opposite way. Thus bolting the final drive ring gear to the LSD instead of what we have now where the LSD is bolted to the final drive and transfer ring gears. Make sense?
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