Ok this is my brothers motor.

It is a d16z6, with a rebuilt bottom end. The work was done professionally from a reputable shop. He has eagle rods, srt pistons, full arp hardware. new bearings, balanced/polished crank. It currently has a A6 oil pan on it.

The A6 oil pan I believe sits alittle deaper. Now the oil pickup is the stock z6 pickup, with the stock z6 dipstick, so it should take alittle more oil then normal, but as long as the dip stick reads good, then the oil pickup should be able to get oil?

We had two oil pumps laying around from two different z6 motors. My friends ran extremely strong and had no problems, we had them mixed up so we are not sure which one is which, the other z6 pump was on the motor.
We put the smoothest feeling oil pump on the motor.
We also replaced all seals, have everything at proper torque specs, and used rtv sealant where our service manual said to just to do everything like said. Also new headgasket.

We took off the oil cap on the valve cover, no oil, but you could kinda see like smoke/steam? we took the valve cover off completely and no smoke/steam looking ****, but there was no oil circulation at the head at all except very minor towards the #1 piston. There is four holes it looks like in each corner of the head, I guess where oil flows? They are all dry.

I want to do a pressure check at the back of the block like the manual says tomorrow, but its obvious there is **** for oil pressure unless there could be a crazy clogging going on? The only gauge I have is one that reads up to 3000 psi, and all my other ones at work are even higher so I may have to go and buy one I suppose.

I'm wondering if there is a way to pinpoint the problem, I was looking for a flow chart or something but no luck. I am going to drain the oil tomorrow, drop the oil pan, take off timing belt, pull the oil pump, and swap it with the other oil pump. Is there anything I should check out while I have it all apart tomorrow that could maybe be signs of any problems?
Also will any other dseries oil pumps work? We have 2 A6's, 2 B7's, and one from a Z6. My brother wants to buy a brand new oil pump with his next check.

Sorry this post is alittle long, I hope I have enough info in it. We are anxious to solve all of our problems so we can break the motor in and get it to work and start on the turbo install.
Sorry if some of my thought don't make any sense or are wrong, we are going by how we think things work, we are not experts but we know there is only one way to learn and we are doing it, which is trying!
Thanks in advance to everyone, I look forward to any responses, helpful or not lol.

and my 100th post! sweet

 

So it's a new engine biuld? Did you prime the oil system before starting it?

 

well **** not really properly, we did crank it with oil topped off, with no spark plugs so there was no compression. we never really thought about it too much, so its probally not primed right?

should I take out the plugs and crank it with no compression until it builds pressure, or I hear to take out the plug on the side under the alt or whatever, and manually fill the pump with oil, and then handcrank it from there?

i wonder if thats all it could be, i read that it wont build pressure running or something? I shoulda known better, when installing pto's and hydraulic pumps at work, I prime the pumps before operation of the pump/cranes. Ive done it so many damn times I should maybe thought about it.
thanks for the reply.

 

Sometimes it's tough to get the oil flowing. On the ones that dont get up to pressure easily I pull off the oil filter and crank it till oil starts coming out. Then when you put the filter back on pressure comes right up.

 

Awsome, thanks for all of your help!

 

so i can pull off the filter and let it crank and it should build up pressure? I've been searching around all morning for more info because im actually really relieved that i wont be ripping the motor back apart. The only info im finding are for chevy blocks and stuff lol and they say to stuff the pump with vaseline or petrollium jelly to get it primed.

I drove the car around the block the night before hand and noticed that the head was dry. So i was a bit worried and was prepared to rip the oil pump back out and replace it. But the motor was running for a little bit of time, but it still wont build pressure at all unless we prime it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tim120 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I drove the car around the block the night before hand and noticed that the head was dry. So i was a bit worried and was prepared to rip the oil pump back out and replace it. But the motor was running for a little bit of time, but it still wont build pressure at all unless we prime it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the oil light went out when you drove it, it"s probably not going to help.

 

oil light stayed on

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are supposed to prime the oil pump before you start the motor for the first time. Not priming can lead to spun bearings if you already started the motor. What I normally do is pull all the spark plugs out, fill the oil a little higher than it's supposed to be (leave the filter on or you'll have a mess all over), and crank the engine over until I see my oil pressure gauge start to bounce up and make a few psi at cranking. My motor's usually take about 20 seconds of cranking or so to make pressure, which is ok if the person who assembled the motor made sure to use plenty of assembly lube during the assembly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was from home made turbo.com, do u think its possible i messed up any bearings? and what method sounds better in priming it, or doesnt matter

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tim120 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That was from home made turbo.com, do u think its possible i messed up any bearings? and what method sounds better in priming it, or doesnt matter</TD></TR></TABLE>
Driving without oil pressure is bad.

Your quote is what I usually try first, if that doesn't work i try other measures.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chiovnidca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Driving without oil pressure is bad.

Your quote is what I usually try first, if that doesn't work i try other measures.</TD></TR></TABLE>
haha no kidding, sorry man im panicing a little bit, this is our first build and first turbo project so ive been a little bit nervous and would like to try and get it fixed without having to rip the whole thing apart, plus alot of other stuff going on around time that is causing us to be pressed on time, but i really appreciate the help with all of this, hopefully ill be able to respond with good news later on today.

 

you can try to manually put oil in the filter, they go back tu the pump to prime it

 

ok I have done the following with no luck.

I tried removing spark plugs and handcranking.
removing spark plugs and cranking via starter
removed alternator
removed plug in back side of block to oil pump, manually filled pump with oil, put plug back in, hand cranked.
same as above, but cranked with starter.
took the oil filter off and put oil down where the filter goes, hand crank + starter cranked, nothing at all.

oil light still on in dash, and no pressure whatsoever will build up. I'm thinking its something else.

I put the oil filter on hand tight, with one hand, its how I always do it, even on the diesel trucks I service at work I do hand tight, always fine. I had hell getting it off, had to use a pipe wrench + channel locks. Is that a sign of anything by chance? I never put oil filters on that tight but It was extremely tight, and I did oil the ring.

And could the a6 oil pan have anything to do with this at all? We even tried to put alittle more oil then normal in and still no luck.

Any suggestions appreciated. I think I may pull the crank pulley, timing belt and swap with a different oil pump if I can't figure out anything soon, it will take me like 30minutes and ive spent hours out there allready lol.

Thanks everyone, will be such a relief for me and my bro to get this solved.


Modified by HackeN at 2:43 PM 8/6/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HackeN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And could the a6 oil pan have anything to do with this at all? We even tried to put alittle more oil then normal in and still no luck.

Any suggestions appreciated. .</TD></TR></TABLE>
Gasket on oil pickup? Clearance between pickup and oil pan?

 

I was wondering about the oil pan myself, it is deeper, in fact the z6 exhaust manifold wouldnt fit around it, we had to use the a6 manifold, i was wondering if the pick up wasnt low enough to make up for the deep oil pan, im pretty sure we checked the gasket to the oil pick up and it looked fine.

 

Yea we made sure there was a gasket on the oil pickup. Im not sure how to check clearance between pickup + pan.
The A6 oil pan is supposed to be alittle deeper.
If the oil pan is deeper there is more of a gap between the bottom and the pickup.
Now to compensate for that extra space, I would say the engine would just hold more oil.
The oil dipstick is the same, so it should be accuratly showing a safe oil level on the dipstick, since the pickup is the same one.
Now to achieve that safe oil level, the engine would just take more oil and have to make up for that added space towards the bottom of the oil pan.

Im just thinking really, but I just dont see really how it could have anything to do with it. Maybe I'm wrong hopefully, I tried looking up literature on how all that can work etc. but I just can't find crap for in depth technical information.

 

yeah but if the oil level is above the pickup it should be grabbing oil.
it sits alittle higher, which is why we had to add in more oil. we added in more oil to ge tthe oil level up higher because the oil pan added more space to the bottom.

it would be like taking a straw and drinking out of a cup 6" deep. You could put the straw 1/2" from the bottom, or the straw 4" from the bottom. As long as there liquid in there to the level of the bottom of your straw, you will suck it up. when the liquid gets taken below the straw, you dont.

The liquid is up there, its just not taking it.
Either that or its pulling up X amount of oil and then its going below the pickup and it is unable to pickup enough oil to supply the engine oil everywhere it should. Then its loosing pressure because its back to air, and then the oil that it started pumping up is not making it nowhere, because it has no oil to pressure behind it to shoot it up.

Maybe we should add in more oil, but how much have we allready added?
I can see the oil in the pan from the head, I think. Theres two holes towards the center, and with the flashlight I can see the oil, and when I crank it, I can see the oil moving. Something is going on down there.

 

and I just edited my last post. its all dont make sense but I dont know heh.

 

ok I added in 1 more quart of oil. It took the oil level 1/4" above the full line on the dipstick, still nothing.
I took the plug out of the oil pump on the back of the pump, that is on the back side of the block and tried hand cranking it, + starter cranking it. It is not even pumping oil at all or else it would be comming out of that plug I suppose.

I'm dropping the pan + pump and checking everything out down under.

 

My guess is that it's the mismatched oil pick up and oil pan if you're just not getting anything at all.

 

well why would there be no oil what so ever in the oil pump? is it just broke all together?

 

herers pics of oil pan dropped.














I am getting about a oil pan depth of 6", its hard to tell by the last picture its angled, so it make it look like its more.
I am getting a oul pickup of about 5 1/4" from the header side of block to edge of pickup and almost a perfect 6" on the intake manifold side.
It looks like the oilpickup site angled with the bottom of the oil pan.
So on the one side of the oil pickup I have like almost contact to the pan, on the other side of the pickup almost a 3/4" gap maybe? Wierd or maybe I am just crazy from being under the car all day and all.

I put 4 quarts into the oilpan outside of the car, and with the measurements the oil pickup should be way into the oil level.

 

The pickup has to be in the oil fine.
I also posted that even with the plug on the oil pump off, it will not push any oil out from that hole on the pump itself. So its not picking up for some strange reason.

The pickup looks clean, I don't see no clogging, and even wiped off the pickup and blew into it. It tasted alittle bad though.

 

I am taking a old cup outside and filling it with oil. I am gona submerge the oil pickup into the cup and hand crank it and see if it will pull anything up. Crazy idea but I wana see what happens.

 

well that didnt work, nothing happened. I am just pulling it and replacing it with one I know worked before.