Alrite, i have a b16, just broke a valve guide and retainer. I need to figure out why it happened. I have ITR cams in it with ITR springs in it. Oil level was good. Are ITR cams ok to just drop in a stock b16a2 head , i did have ITR springs though, i need help , please let me know what u guys think, i gotta get my motor back together, oh ya, there is alot of scoring on top of the rocker arms. Are the cams to big???????????

 

hey, i need help with this, i am very confused. Also, i have a chipped p28 in it and the redline goes to 9000, is it safe to run it this high? Maybe this is what cause the problem, its stock internals except ITR cams and springs. I need to know why my rockers are scored and why it broke, and if 9000 is too high, PLEASE HELP ASAP.

 

sup man this is just my opinion i think the springs mest up your retainers because you put more pressure on them, i was running CTR cams on my b16a1 before i blew my block and i havent had any head problems reving up to 9000, so i think it might be those springs and wear

 

Do u mean that the ITR springs had too much force for the stock b16 retainers, cuz i wasnt quite sure what u meant, kool, thanks

 

Oh ya, were u running those cams without the ITR or CTR springs?? bump


Modified by hatch4raceb16 at 6:12 PM 7/15/2003

 

bump..............

 

umm...just a question. i'm honestly not trying to be a dick, but i see people having problems with these frankenstein set ups, and i wonder where they get these ideas. why did you put the ITR cams and springs in? actually, i should ask why did you think they would work? like i said, i'm not trying to be a dick, i just don't know much about interchangeable drivetrain components. lowering springs are one thing...valve springs are entirely different. if there is proof that these cams and springs are supposed to work, then i don't know what the problem is. if there isn't proof, i think it should be quite obvious what the problem is.

i could be entirely wrong by saying this, considering i don't know what your intentions were, but if someone came into my shop and wanted to purchase ITR cams and springs for his/her b16, i would definitely question why. if it was because they are cheaper than aftermarket ones, i would question how that person knew these cams and springs would work, and if they don't, how much damage would they cause and would they end up costing more in the long run because they have to be replaced? if this is your story, next time, either don't do the mod or do it right. spend a little more and go with something that's proven to work right. at least if it breaks that way, the company that sold you the parts may be responsible.

 

ok, bro, the cams were not the problem, the problem is the springs were too strong and I think it was over revved. And also, read teh dam message boards, and call performance shops, everyone puts ITR cams in , even the performance shops do it and they sell them to fit. So , whatever.

 

the same thing kinda happened 2 my friend, he had itr cams in his b16 and str cam gears and the cam gears slipped and advanced 10 degrees and we where pretty sure that he dropped a valve.

 

man thats a nice avatar

 

Hey, what exactly happened to ur friend, what u said sound completelly dif than what i said, u slipped timing , my timing was perfect , i think my type springs had too much compression and broke the retainer, let me know, thanks, later

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatch4raceb16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alrite, i have a b16, just broke a valve guide and retainer. I need to figure out why it happened. I have ITR cams in it with ITR springs in it. Oil level was good. Are ITR cams ok to just drop in a stock b16a2 head , i did have ITR springs though, i need help , please let me know what u guys think, i gotta get my motor back together, oh ya, there is alot of scoring on top of the rocker arms. Are the cams to big??????????? </TD></TR></TABLE>

How many miles were on your motor?

Probably the reason this happened was because you did not adjust your valves properly to the ITR cams. They were adjusted to the factory spec B16 cams and thus put more stress. You shouldn't have any problems whatsoever running ITR/CTR cams on a stock B16 valve train at all. Even the LMA's (lost motion assemblies) will handle the lift of the VTEC lobe on the ITR/CTR cams.

LMA's are basically little holders inside the head that holds the VTEC rocker arm while not in VTEC so it doesn't flap around.

Replace those parts or get aftermarket ones then do proper valve adjustments!

 

How do I replace those parts, and how do i do a proper valve adjustment now that my rocker arms a re scored like they are. And also , what valve adjustment specs do I use, the ones for a type r motor , or what?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by S8P-tuner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why did you put the ITR cams and springs in? </TD></TR></TABLE>

why not?

 

k, i had to read that twice to make sure i got what your trying to say.. "my shop"..? ..what do you own..a flower shop?!? Do you even know what your talking about? ..because it honestly sounds like you dont! Im not trying to be too much of a dick or anything but what i think your trying to say is outrageous! ITR (Integra Type-R, if you dont know) cams have been proven countless times!! most people who dont want super-aggressive cams are very happy with ITR cams! and this is just the profile, the fitment is one of the best on the market!!! after all, HONDA did make the head as well as the cams so why wouldnt they fit!?! (and dont try to be a complete dumbass and try to ask me a lame rhetorical question like 'Honda made D15 cams, will they fit into a B16!!') probably most of all cams breakage/valvetrain faliure comes from installer error! if the cams are out of spec then it is the companies fault and they would gladly replace them..but if you/installer didnt check clearances then its your fault as well! If your head is out of spec then can you really blame the cam maker..? again, installers job to check clearances, lube it up, and torque to spec.

I think your getting things mixed up as well! Usually, when people say "Frankenstein Setup" they're referring to "LSVTEC" not installing different OEM cams.. Different OEM cams (ITR/CTR cams) falls along the same lines as installing aftermarket cams..but in a broader view of your sense, installing aftermarket cams is also a "Frankenstein Setup" OEM head + Aftermarket cams = Frankenstein!!!

B-Series VTEC Heads are designed to use the B-Series VTEC Cams. There are 2 different B-Series VTEC Heads, PR3 and and P72. Heads are different in design but share some of the same parts. thus meaning, interchangeable. these interchangeable parts are the LCA's (if you dont know, refer to "Miracles Can Happen" in sig), Cam's, Vavlesprings, Valve Cover, and Exhaust Manifold's...these are the most commonly known, there are probably more.

anyways, B16 is a PR3 head. ITR/CTR is a PR3 head. And GSR is a P72 head.
my point, &gt;&gt;B16 = PR3 = ITR&lt;&lt; All parts between these two heads are interchangeable! Rocker arms, valves, valvesprings, bolts, gaskets, everything! meaning you can put ITR cams in a B16 and B16 cams into a ITR and it will work because they are essentially the same head. what makes a ITR head different from a B16 head is just more aggressive cams, stronger valvesprings, lighter intake valves, better LCA's (from older models), bigger intake manifold, larger throttle body and a light port and polish from that factory that is more like a 'cast clean up' rather then a "port and polish".

i dont know anything about you or your shop but what you posted is just ridiculous.

and to the guy with physical the problem..
9k is real high! if you look at a real ITR with ITR cams and valvetrain. The Redline is 8,400. i dont know why your taking it over that.
Cams are not too large. 11.5mm lift is nothing compared to 12.5+mm lifts that people run with no problems!
Valvespings are not too stiff. you need lots of spring pressure to keep 12+mm lift @ 9k+ RPM but people are running with no problems...
If oil is at proper level then maybe you should check oil pressure while in operation. honestly, i think the scoring was caused by either inadequate oil pressure or most likely, really tight valve clearances. meaning you should gotten/done a valve adjustment. http://www.c-speedracing.com will tell you how.


Modified by 10K2HVN at 5:27 PM 7/18/2003

 

9k is too much for that setup

you overreved and probably not adjusted valves helped quicken it

no worries dial it down to 8500 adjust valves, replace broken components and off ya go

 

it sounds to me without looking at the head that the retainer just broke. it had nothing to do with spring pressure because I don't think you could get enough pressure out of ITR springs to do any damage, the stock retainers are a weak stamped steel P.O.S. so when the retainer broke the valve most likely altough you haven't said so, bent after kissing the piston and the guide cracked. check the other valves make sure there not starting to pull through the retainers to.

 

Ok, kool. You guys gave me some good info. I have a question though, how do i go about checking for good oil pressure, and what would give me bad oil pressure, could one of those oil orifices in the head be clogged, or could the oil pump go out, when i pulled the valve cover there was oil everywhere, so there is oil getting up there but i dont know if its enough. How do I check it. AND also, one more thing i forgot to add, my vtec was cutting in and out for a couple days before this happend, so maybe there was bad oil pressure? Or maybe the vtec is just another problem, it could easily be bad wiring.


Modified by hatch4raceb16 at 8:11 AM 7/19/2003

 

10k2hvn: didn't i say that i didn't know a whole lot about interchangeable parts between the two heads? i looked back, and yes, i did. excuse me for not knowing everything. my main point was that if these parts were used ONLY because they were cheaper, it was probably a bad idea. if someone knows only as much or less than i do about the usage of these cams in their head, it probably isn't a good idea. a good example of someone going the cheap route and not knowing why it is a bad idea is a guy who came into my shop (my tax papers say it is an automotive aftermarket retail and service shop...sorry, no flowers) with APC coil-over sleeves, installed by some cheap shop that didn't know what they were doing. we found the sleeves upside-down, one with a missing upper strut bushing collar, one with the same collar crushed, and one with one of the bushings missing. he got what he paid for. he also got to pay for everything to be replaced, plus new shocks, since they stripped the threads...

i'm so tired of all the people on here who can barely read but can write back with a large mouthful of stupid things to say. i even admitted that i didn't know what the problem was, but that if the original poster fell into the example i had posted about doing what was cheapest, his problem was clear. i specialize in aftermarket parts and installations. people don't come into my store for used factory parts. people looking for cams come to me for jun, toda, skunk2, etc... i didn't know that valve springs from a b18 would work on a b16. i never needed to know that. i am not ebay. people can buy used parts on there or on forums like this. people come to me for new parts, and to have those new parts installed. if people bring me parts that they have not purchased from me, it isn't my responsibility to show them that they will work or what they will do in their application. in fact, i probably wouldn't install a product on a vehicle unless i was 100% sure what it was. i won't install most used parts that are brought into my shop. it saves me the hassle of having to deal with questions like "it was supposed to work, why didn't it?" when i know perfectly well how to do a job, but can't guarantee the part since i don't know where it came from...

this is remarkably stupid, and i apologize for the lack of helpfulness that i presented to the original poster of this thread. i at least hope you read and understood my initial response, unlike certain others...

 

my point is..
-there both practically the same head so any part that works on one head will work on the other (OEM or Aftermarket).
-parts are OEM and have a better consistency then most aftermarket manufactures/better quality then some aftermarket manufactures.
-Cams have been proven (well enough that some people buy them new)
-He never said they were the cams were used.
-Most people that buy ITR cams buy them because they want the *reliability/quality* that comes from the OEM product.

im sorry because i came on too harsh.
ive already read it, and understand you dont know much about OEM parts, but you should know more about them before you start talking trash on them. Plus, if you look at the Skunk2 cams in your shop, then you should already know that they will fit on the B16A/B or B18C1/5 so you figure that a cam from a B18C5 would work in a B16.
Honestly, you should know the history of these motors before you work on them.
Peace
-10k

 

bump, please answer my last question 3 posts ago, instead of argue with eachother, geeze guys.

 

well, i just just about to say but i forgot..if you dont have good oil pressure then VTEC will not engage..but after i read your post 4 post ago..
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatch4raceb16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my vtec was cutting in and out for a couple days before this happened</TD></TR></TABLE>
..then it might just be because of your oil pressure..? maybe a new oil pump rocker arms and cams (plus whatever you need) and you should be good to go...
Good luck peace.
oh yeah, please dont rev to 9k anymore unless you know you can. look into PortFlow inner valvesprings.
-10k

 

why would i need new rocker arms?
And how can i test my oil pump?
And why would i need new cams, the overall opinoin on here is that my ITR cams are perfetly fine for my motor?


Modified by hatch4raceb16 at 7:09 PM 7/20/2003

 

If you used late-model retainers with early model B16 keepers, that's the problem. The early keepers are so much thicker that the installed height of the retainer will be much lower on the valve than it's supposed to be. This can cause the bottom of the retainers to crash into the valve seals/guides.
Look to see if the keepers are sitting all the way down into the retainers on the other valves. If they're sticking-up out of the top of the retainers...that's most likely the problem. BTW, the old keepers are silver in color rather than black like the late-model pieces.....

 

well i konw that my motor is out of a 2000 si so it was all stock besides the cams and valve springs, so i have the newer ****, should that be ok?