Hello again Honda-Tech community! I have another problem that I need advice with....

Installed my Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, and Skunk2 valves and springs this weekend... The mechanical part of it went very smooth, and the install was seemingly straight-forward until we started it, and found that the number 1 cylinder was missing. So, we began to troubleshoot...

Here are the symptoms: Rough idle (rougher than it should be with stage 2 cams), severe shake because it's idling at like 300rpm, and the engine dies after a little while, as if it's run out of gas. This happens worse when the engine is warm, but seems to run fine and idle normally when it's cold. (Idles right around 1k).

We originally advanced the timing on the cam gear side 2 degrees, and advanced the timing on the distributor as far as it would go... Smoothed out mid to high revs, but did nothing for idle.

We checked the plug wires, and determined that the #1 plug wire was cracked, and the spark was arcing to the head. Changed the wires, and problem got a little better, but not much. Idle was a little more stable.

We then checked the injectors, and they click normally, and spray seemingly normally when out of the head... We switched the #1 and #2 injectors, to see if the problem would switch to the #2 cylinder, but no luck there... #1 still seemed dead...

Called upon the assistance of a 4 year Honda Dealership mechanic, and played around for a few hours, re-timing and adjusting and what not, and he's at a loss... The only thing he could suggest was maybe there was a wiring problem going to the #1 injector. He suggested that we check a sensor in the distributor, that tells the ECU that the #1 is at TDC, then the ECU fires the injector... He seems to think that the injector is firing, but not at the right time...

We also did a compression test, and the #1 cylinder was 190psi...

I'm at a total loss, and since this is my daily driver, I need to fix this as soon as humanly possible... ANY suggestions would be appreciated... I'm also available on AIM at B18CEJ8 if you need any information from me to make a "diagnosis"... THANKS!!!

 

Did you recheck the valve clearances?

 

Recheck your timing. and then check it again.. ::shrugs::

 

i say timing belt is off a tooth............what cam gears are you using? set them at zero and check the timing belt.........might be off a tooth.....

 

If the timing was off, it would effect all cylinders, correct? When the engine was running, we pulled plug wires one by one, then replaced them... On the 2, 3 and 4 cylinders, the engine almost died, then was fine when the wires were replaced... The #1 cylinder showed hardly any change when removed.... It's almost like the #1 isn't even there...

 

Timing is dead on... Using AEM adjustables, set to 0 on both intake and exhaust...

 

Check all your engine bay ground wires to make sure they are all tight and in place.Even though your cam gears are at 0 make sure that your crank and the camgears are in sync.If possible switch out the ECU just to eliminate that from the equation.

 

did you make sure the valves seated correctly when you put them in..? try a leak down test.. might help out some. good luck

 

Vacuum leak? Spark plug gap ?

 

If you put a screwdriver to your ear and listen to the injector body, it should be clicking regularly and consistently.

But, it's almost certain to not be a fuel problem.

I concur on the vacuum leak on the manifold gasket around the #1 cylinder as a possibility. Distributor cap maybe too.

Worst case scenario is that cam gears and/or cams were ground/machined horribly, leaving the #1 cam lobes way out of useful spec.

The only way to tell tho is to degree the cams in on the #1 and another cylinder, and then compare the difference in camgear adjustments.

Appended: Did you say that you also had new valves put in? And, what were the compression numbers on the other cylinders?

 

I have heard a number of rough idle stories after adjusting valves. readjust them and do it to a slightly larger clearance and see if that makes a difference. I have witnessed it in a few cars.

by larger, i mean looser clearance

 

The car has always had a fuel problem, ever since I put the B18C in... I'm going to swap ECU's today and see if that makes a difference...

Right now, I'm leaning towards a wiring problem, although if there is a problem with wiring, and/or a sensor, wouldn't it be throwing a CEL?? As of now, I don't have one, and never had one before... The swap went in without a hitch...

 

why did your sparkplug crack ? is your #1 exh pipe getting hot or just warm ?

greg

 

Spark plug cracked for an unknown reason... Maybe improper installation... They were cheap Autolite's from Walmart, just to get it running...

#1 exhaust pipe gets hot when you hold the throttle open for a while, but not as hot as the others...

I'm getting frustrated...

 

Okay.. .Just drove the car home from the garage; 10 miles....

Car seems to be fine above 2k or so, and it seems to run as per normal then... Can't tell a difference with the new cams, considering I'm breaking in the new Stage 3 clutch right now, so it's 3-4k shifts for me all the time....

It ran fine when it was cold, idling right around 900 to 1k, but as I got closer to home and had to stop for redlights and stuff, it wanted to die when I pushed in the clutch... Had to use the e-brake to slow down, and keep the revs up at stops....

I'm planning on switching the ECU later tonight with a friend's, and maybe that will cure this... The engine has always run roughly, especially at lower RPMs, and liked to bog slightly when I hit the gas...

Anyone else have any ideas for me?? Thanks!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm planning on switching the ECU later tonight with a friend's, and maybe that will cure this... The engine has always run roughly, especially at lower RPMs, and liked to bog slightly when I hit the gas...

Anyone else have any ideas for me?? Thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Speaking of ecu...what ecu are you running exactly?

 

Sounds like you have to adjust the idle screw so it passes alitle more air a cold engine should idle at 1.5k and go down to like .8k when warm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by leadfoot78 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Speaking of ecu...what ecu are you running exactly? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Running the stock 94 GSR ECU that came with my motor... I'm going to swap in a 93 B16 ECU tonight and see what happens....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by leadfoot78 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like you have to adjust the idle screw so it passes alitle more air a cold engine should idle at 1.5k and go down to like .8k when warm. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought of that, but that doesn't fix my problem with the #1 cylinder making no power at low RPM...

The problem is that the #1 is getting spark, fuel, and compression, just not at the same time..

 

Okay.. MORE problems....

I was out tonight, on my way to switch ECU's and was in 5th gear, driving normally, and the car felt like it was falling apart...

I looked down and the engine was coming down from 4700rpm.... Obviously this shaking and loud awful noise was coming from when VTEC engaged... It wasn't a grinding noise, but more like a clunking... Hard to describe... Nothing I've ever heard before...

Also, when I let off the gas, and then step on it again, it bucks, then starts on its merry way again...

Argh... I'm beginning to doubt whether or not my car will ever run right again.... I'm getting so frustrated....

 

If the spark and fuel timing was off on #1, it would be off on the other cylinders as well so that is out. You said you have compression so that is out, you also said you can hear the injector is firing so that is out. Are you actually getting spark to the end of the #1 plug wire? and have you tried doing a leak down test? pull the spark plug out of #1 and look at it.

 

There is definitely spark at the end of the tube...

We think that the fuel is burning at the wrong time. Somehow or another, the injector isn't firing at the proper time, or the plug isn't sparking at the right time...

We put brand new plugs in right before running the engine to break in the cams... Pulled out the plugs in 2, 3, and 4, and the ceramic was nice & tan, however, the 1 plug was totally black; which is indicitive of burning fuel at the wrong time of the combustion stroke, right???

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on a problem between the injector and the ECU, or the spark plug / distributor and the ECU... I think that number one cylinder isn't firing at the right time...

 

that problem you had after vtec engaged and **** doesnt sound good at all. id take the cover off and check your **** and make sure every thing was installed correctly. those are some odd problems... good luck

 

Also... Say there is a problem with the wiring between the ECU and the injector, causing it not to shoot when it's supposed to.. Maybe it's shorting out somewhere... What if I was to run a wire directly from the #1 injector pinout on the ECU to the injector itself and bypass the one that's already there... Could that be done?

 

Anyone else have any ideas??? Please???