Light Wheels : What are the benefits.
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From: Surey, BC, Canada
Light Wheels : What are the benefits.
What I need to know is there cons to having light wheels like say Konig Heliums
17 x 7 weighing in it at 16lbs... What about pros is accel better? I don't much experience with wheels, and no it's not for my EF
17 x 7 weighing in it at 16lbs... What about pros is accel better? I don't much experience with wheels, and no it's not for my EF
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From: PASADENA, CA, USA
Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (b16supertuner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16supertuner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">less rotational mass therory anyone? </TD></TR></TABLE>
yesh, its like having lightened flywheels on all 4 corners of your car = better acceleration.
yesh, its like having lightened flywheels on all 4 corners of your car = better acceleration.
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (AdamEF)
It makes a big difference...
HOWEVER... if you have stock 14's on there now the 17's lighter or not will probobly slow it down...
the further out the center of mass is the more drag created...
but if you have some 17 chrome dipped lead wheels on there now it'll be a HUGE difference..
Also the cons are...
they bend EASY EASY EASY... I have the konig heliums, 15's and I've bent one hitting a not so rediculous pothole not that fast (40 or so). So those 17's are probobly about as stiff as cold butter.
braking becomes more of a job for the brakes instead of the weight of the wheel helping slow things down...
but that's about it.
HOWEVER... if you have stock 14's on there now the 17's lighter or not will probobly slow it down...
the further out the center of mass is the more drag created...
but if you have some 17 chrome dipped lead wheels on there now it'll be a HUGE difference..
Also the cons are...
they bend EASY EASY EASY... I have the konig heliums, 15's and I've bent one hitting a not so rediculous pothole not that fast (40 or so). So those 17's are probobly about as stiff as cold butter.
braking becomes more of a job for the brakes instead of the weight of the wheel helping slow things down...
but that's about it.
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From: Trinidad, W.I.
Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (NonovUrbizniz)
The LIGHT rims, 15-16lbs... + tire is approx 31-35 lbs. A stock steelie is approx 32lbs w/ tire and a 15" Si alloy + tire is about 34lbs. So compared to a stock rim, the light 17 is only increasing your braking effort and slightly reducing acceleration.
But compared to a heavier 17", you will notice a bit more acceleration, shorter braking and improved suspension rebound/transition.
But compared to a heavier 17", you will notice a bit more acceleration, shorter braking and improved suspension rebound/transition.
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I dunno, I have 15 heliums also, and when I got them 2 weeks ago the shipping containers said 41 lbs per wheels - this is with kuhmos mounted on them. a stock steelie w/tire is only 32? something's not adding up
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">braking becomes more of a job for the brakes instead of the weight of the wheel helping slow things down...</TD></TR></TABLE>
?
I don't really understand what you're getting at in this part...
?
I don't really understand what you're getting at in this part...
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the further out the center of mass is the more drag created...</TD></TR></TABLE>
It isn't drag, drag is a resistant force caused by fluids. It's about torque: T = r x F (r being the distance from the axis of the wheel) applied by the tire and the friction with the road. A wheel with more inertia requires more kinetic energy to spin it the same angular velocity: Ek = 1/2 I (v^2/r^2), same thing applies to slow it down.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">braking becomes more of a job for the brakes instead of the weight of the wheel helping slow things down...</TD></TR></TABLE>
The weight of the wheel does not help slow things down. More weight means that a larger reverse torque (applied by the caliper clamping onto the rotor) is required to decelerate the wheel. Larger rotational inertia means that more force is required to accelerate and deccelerate => I = 1/2 mr^2 .
It isn't drag, drag is a resistant force caused by fluids. It's about torque: T = r x F (r being the distance from the axis of the wheel) applied by the tire and the friction with the road. A wheel with more inertia requires more kinetic energy to spin it the same angular velocity: Ek = 1/2 I (v^2/r^2), same thing applies to slow it down.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">braking becomes more of a job for the brakes instead of the weight of the wheel helping slow things down...</TD></TR></TABLE>
The weight of the wheel does not help slow things down. More weight means that a larger reverse torque (applied by the caliper clamping onto the rotor) is required to decelerate the wheel. Larger rotational inertia means that more force is required to accelerate and deccelerate => I = 1/2 mr^2 .
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From: Trinidad, W.I.
Re: (draco067)
Keep in mind, a steelie is 13-14" rim and the tire is lighter than a 17" tire in general.
Now tire weight also varies by brand and model. I have weighed various rims w/ tires and that is where my figures comes from.
I never weighed the heliums, but maybe the brand/type of tire has more of something (steel belting, nylon...something)
Now tire weight also varies by brand and model. I have weighed various rims w/ tires and that is where my figures comes from.
I never weighed the heliums, but maybe the brand/type of tire has more of something (steel belting, nylon...something)
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (GSpeedR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSpeedR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It isn't drag, drag is a resistant force caused by fluids. It's about torque: T = r x F (r being the distance from the axis of the wheel) applied by the tire and the friction with the road. A wheel with more inertia requires more kinetic energy to spin it the same angular velocity: Ek = 1/2 I (v^2/r^2), same thing applies to slow it down.
The weight of the wheel does not help slow things down. More weight means that a larger reverse torque (applied by the caliper clamping onto the rotor) is required to decelerate the wheel. Larger rotational inertia means that more force is required to accelerate and deccelerate => I = 1/2 mr^2 . </TD></TR></TABLE>
Right but a heavier wheel slows the car down faster w/o ever hitting the breaks.... where a lighter wheel will keep your speed up and slow you down MUCH slower...
It isn't drag, drag is a resistant force caused by fluids. It's about torque: T = r x F (r being the distance from the axis of the wheel) applied by the tire and the friction with the road. A wheel with more inertia requires more kinetic energy to spin it the same angular velocity: Ek = 1/2 I (v^2/r^2), same thing applies to slow it down.
The weight of the wheel does not help slow things down. More weight means that a larger reverse torque (applied by the caliper clamping onto the rotor) is required to decelerate the wheel. Larger rotational inertia means that more force is required to accelerate and deccelerate => I = 1/2 mr^2 . </TD></TR></TABLE>
Right but a heavier wheel slows the car down faster w/o ever hitting the breaks.... where a lighter wheel will keep your speed up and slow you down MUCH slower...
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Right but a heavier wheel slows the car down faster w/o ever hitting the breaks.... where a lighter wheel will keep your speed up and slow you down MUCH slower...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope. Inertia resists accleration. That includes deceleration, which is simply negative acceleration. A heavier wheel will take more force to slow in the same amount of time.
It takes a whole lot longer for a bowling ball to stop compared to a marble, when you don't consider drag. This is perfectly fine, since there is no frontal surface area contribution from the tires/wheels. Heavier wheels are harder to speed up and slow. Worst of both worlds.
Nope. Inertia resists accleration. That includes deceleration, which is simply negative acceleration. A heavier wheel will take more force to slow in the same amount of time.
It takes a whole lot longer for a bowling ball to stop compared to a marble, when you don't consider drag. This is perfectly fine, since there is no frontal surface area contribution from the tires/wheels. Heavier wheels are harder to speed up and slow. Worst of both worlds.
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (GSpeedR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSpeedR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Nope. Inertia resists accleration. That includes deceleration, which is simply negative acceleration. A heavier wheel will take more force to slow in the same amount of time.
It takes a whole lot longer for a bowling ball to stop compared to a marble, when you don't consider drag. This is perfectly fine, since there is no frontal surface area contribution from the tires/wheels. Heavier wheels are harder to speed up and slow. Worst of both worlds. </TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, think about how a lightened flywheel reponds differently compared to a heavy stock one.[
Nope. Inertia resists accleration. That includes deceleration, which is simply negative acceleration. A heavier wheel will take more force to slow in the same amount of time.
It takes a whole lot longer for a bowling ball to stop compared to a marble, when you don't consider drag. This is perfectly fine, since there is no frontal surface area contribution from the tires/wheels. Heavier wheels are harder to speed up and slow. Worst of both worlds. </TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, think about how a lightened flywheel reponds differently compared to a heavy stock one.[
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (GSpeedR)
well my car defies physics then because my heavy wheels used to slow me down and my light ones roll for MUCH longer with hardly any slow down...
I'm not saying it's easier for the brakes to stop them... I'm saying they slow the car down... when not on the gas OR the brakes...
mine did at least...
and slowing down is hardly negative acceleration... you are fighting TONS of forces to keep you moving... once you stop accelerating the car slows down... in my experience more so the heavier the wheels... it's called rolling resistance for a reason.
I'm not saying it's easier for the brakes to stop them... I'm saying they slow the car down... when not on the gas OR the brakes...
mine did at least...
and slowing down is hardly negative acceleration... you are fighting TONS of forces to keep you moving... once you stop accelerating the car slows down... in my experience more so the heavier the wheels... it's called rolling resistance for a reason.
Who?
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (AdamEF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GRM »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alloy wheels are usually lighter than steel wheels, which reduces unsprung weight (all weight that is not supported by the suspension). Any reduction in wheel weight reduces the amount of inertial weight at the rotational axis. The less weight there is spinning around, the easier it is for the engine to turn the wheel and the easier it is for the suspension to control wheel and tire movements.
Even small weight reductions of two to three pounds can make a significant difference. As an example, imagine spinning a two-pound weight on a string over your head. Now imagine the same thing with a 10-pound weight. The 10-pound weight will require much more effort to spin, and will be harder to control. The same principle holds true for road wheels and unsprung weight.
Another benefit of reduced wheel weight is that steering response will improve as there is a lighter load on the steering rack. And lighter wheels reduce the rotating mass of the vehicle, providing quicker acceleration and shorter stopping distances.</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/wheels.html
Even small weight reductions of two to three pounds can make a significant difference. As an example, imagine spinning a two-pound weight on a string over your head. Now imagine the same thing with a 10-pound weight. The 10-pound weight will require much more effort to spin, and will be harder to control. The same principle holds true for road wheels and unsprung weight.
Another benefit of reduced wheel weight is that steering response will improve as there is a lighter load on the steering rack. And lighter wheels reduce the rotating mass of the vehicle, providing quicker acceleration and shorter stopping distances.</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/wheels.html
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From: The Holy City, USA
Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and slowing down is hardly negative acceleration... you are fighting TONS of forces to keep you moving... once you stop accelerating the car slows down... in my experience more so the heavier the wheels... it's called rolling resistance for a reason.</TD></TR></TABLE>
He's not talking about the actions taken to slow you down, hes talking about the way you would facter deacceleration, or slowing down into an equation that he learned in his physics class (you know, the class that teaches us how the world around us works and reacts).
He's not talking about the actions taken to slow you down, hes talking about the way you would facter deacceleration, or slowing down into an equation that he learned in his physics class (you know, the class that teaches us how the world around us works and reacts).
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (luti)
There may be other factors involved in my you think that your heavier wheels slow you down more. Heavier wheels = bigger wheels = better tires = more rotational friction? That's a possibility. It's the same for all things, try to stop a dumptruck moving at 50mph is a lot harder than trying to stop a Civic moving at 50mph.
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From: Mt. Wanahakalugie
Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (b16supertuner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16supertuner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">less rotational mass therory anyone? </TD></TR></TABLE>
common sense
common sense
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Re: (draco067)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by draco067 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dunno, I have 15 heliums also, and when I got them 2 weeks ago the shipping containers said 41 lbs per wheels - this is with kuhmos mounted on them. a stock steelie w/tire is only 32? something's not adding up</TD></TR></TABLE>
Probably packaging materials.
Probably packaging materials.
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (GSpeedR)
I'm not going to post a big long response to this... but...
Heavier wheels WILL slow you down faster... they will also be harder for the brakes to stop... they will also make it harder to accelerate... they are bad on ALL counts...
light wheels do the opposite of ALL of those.
your logic and response is flawed because:
A: The heavier wheels where NO bigger... IDENTICAL tire sizes and wheel dimensions..
B: the new wheels have no less "expensive" tires on them.
C: A dumptruck is hard to stop because of the weight riding on the wheels not the weight of the wheels...
heavy wheels slow you down in everyway imaginable... they DO slow you down at a roll MUCH faster than light wheels would... they rob power be it from the engine or your momentum.
Heavier wheels WILL slow you down faster... they will also be harder for the brakes to stop... they will also make it harder to accelerate... they are bad on ALL counts...
light wheels do the opposite of ALL of those.
your logic and response is flawed because:
A: The heavier wheels where NO bigger... IDENTICAL tire sizes and wheel dimensions..
B: the new wheels have no less "expensive" tires on them.
C: A dumptruck is hard to stop because of the weight riding on the wheels not the weight of the wheels...
heavy wheels slow you down in everyway imaginable... they DO slow you down at a roll MUCH faster than light wheels would... they rob power be it from the engine or your momentum.
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From: Redlight District, MA, USA
Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (XDEep)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XDEep »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 
you know who you are</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol...sweeeeet
you know who you are</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol...sweeeeet
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From: Norwalk, CT
Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Heavier wheels WILL slow you down faster...
---------------------
. . . . they DO slow you down at a roll MUCH faster than light wheels would...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, but you're wrong here. A heavier wheel is more inertia. More inertia will resist changes in velocity.
Quick analogy - 2 tops of the same size, one weighing 5 pounds, the other 1 pound. Which will spin longer?
---------------------
. . . . they DO slow you down at a roll MUCH faster than light wheels would...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, but you're wrong here. A heavier wheel is more inertia. More inertia will resist changes in velocity.
Quick analogy - 2 tops of the same size, one weighing 5 pounds, the other 1 pound. Which will spin longer?
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From: orange county, ca
Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (Daemione)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Daemione »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sorry, but you're wrong here. A heavier wheel is more inertia. More inertia will resist changes in velocity.
Quick analogy - 2 tops of the same size, one weighing 5 pounds, the other 1 pound. Which will spin longer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dunno. the one with more mass towards the center? oh you mean with the same force and contact area minus air resistance and structural balance. i dunno.
Sorry, but you're wrong here. A heavier wheel is more inertia. More inertia will resist changes in velocity.
Quick analogy - 2 tops of the same size, one weighing 5 pounds, the other 1 pound. Which will spin longer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dunno. the one with more mass towards the center? oh you mean with the same force and contact area minus air resistance and structural balance. i dunno.
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Re: Light Wheels : What are the benefits. (XDEep)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XDEep »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i dunno. the one with more mass towards the center? oh you mean with the same force and contact area minus air resistance and structural balance. i dunno.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Jeez, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. I'm assuming identical dimensions, velocity, and an even distribution of mass, so the only variable is the amount of inertia they possess.
Spin them both at the same velocity, and the heavier one (w/ more inertia) will continue to spin longer.
i dunno. the one with more mass towards the center? oh you mean with the same force and contact area minus air resistance and structural balance. i dunno.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Jeez, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. I'm assuming identical dimensions, velocity, and an even distribution of mass, so the only variable is the amount of inertia they possess.
Spin them both at the same velocity, and the heavier one (w/ more inertia) will continue to spin longer.